FINALLY! A fix for charisma!

[mirivor]

A friend of mine sent me his handout for a homebrew world recently and it got me to thinking.

I don't know about you, but I think that charisma is the bastardized child of the stats. Poor thing is always on the receiving end of the lowest score to be had unless:

A: The character needs charisma to function
or
B: The player is the type who doesn't envision heroes with no personality (like me).

So, here is the fix:

The number of permanent magical items that a character can have functioning at any one time is equal to half of his charisma score rounded down, to the limit of item slots. There are several ways to handle exceeding the limit:

1) Priority of items is based on most recent placement. If a character puts on a ring that exceeds his limit, then the first item put on ceases to function and so forth.

2) Exceeding the limit causes a temporary "disjoining" effect which shuts down all magical items on the character until the limit is met. All temporary effects are automatically dispelled, if able. This method has drawbacks... clever players will use this to their advantage and could conceivably give themselves immunity to most magical effects by keeping a spare magical item on them.

3) Exceeding the limit causes the permanent items to cease functioning, end of story.

It is simple and elegant and ensures that everyone would think twice before slapping that 6 or 8 into charisma. I recently incorporated this rule into my own campaign world. The biggest obstacles are defining permanent items and an explanation as to why your charisma does this. For me, permanent items are defined as constant (I used Arcana Unearthed creation rules as a basis for my world). But I don't think that any DM would have trouble defining such. Armor and swords count when donned/drawn, bracers, rings, etc. The second problem is a little deeper and less mechanical. In my world, magic is accessible only through force of personality (AKA charisma); prepatory casters do not exist. Since personality (and therefore charisma) allows one to control the essence of magic, it stands to reason that it would allow one to control, to some extent, the essence or aura of magical items. You could say the same for prepatory casters, deciding that their knowledge of the arcane/divine allows them to control those auras.

I am certain that some or many of you will object to this and that is Ok as long as they are reasonable and constructive. I am also looking for refinements or ideas to possibly add in to this little system.

Later!



PS: props to Mike for coming up with the basis... he uses the charisma modifier instead of half the charisma score!!!

 

[XCorvis]

That's interesting, but it also has huge ramifications for the wealth system and standard power levels. I think it also makes charisma TOO good. Using 5 items (10 CHA) or 9 items (18 CHA)? It potentially unbalances the charisma focused characters, because they get two major effects from the stat.

IMO, the best way to get people to take charisma is to actually make them use it. Don't let the party spokesman do all the talking - put them in situations where other PCs must use charisma based skills.

 

[mirivor]

Yes, it would impact the wealth system. But I don't think that it would be in a bad way. There is potential that the few magical items the players have could be enchanted to a higher level, but that is not an awful thing as long as the DM keeps a hold on the reins. It would free up money for things such as laboratories, small domiciles, etc.

The other subject you addressed is one that I respectively disagree with. See, without the system in place, all characters would be uber once they acquired their items. This system would knock them down a notch or two, but not leave them totally worthless. Your point about the high charisma characters is valid, but I do not foresee it being game-breaking.

I, as a DM, have a lot of trouble utilizing all of the skills in the game and, unfortunately, my group tends more toward tactical combat with a little story as opposed to the other way around.

Later!

 

[Jack Simth]

Another way of keeping people from making a Charisma a dump stat is to introduce things that deal Charisma damage... low level Psions with Ego Whip, perhaps....

But I see the point - in addition to the assorted skills based off the stat, and class-specific things, Str affects melee damage and carrying capacity; Dex affects AC and Reflex Saves; Con affects HP and Fort saves; Wis affects Will saves; Int affects skill points; Cha affects.... ?

Mind you - Charisma is an important stat for about four of the base classes (Paladins, Bards, Sorcerors, and (to a lesser extent) Clerics)

 

[Victim]

I think the system overly penalizes characters with a good/decent CHA but little incentive to magically amp the stat. A character with a 14 base CHA is hardly using it as a dump stat, but they still lose 4 magic slots - a rather hefty penalty for a character with an above average stat. Even with a +6 CHA item, they're still short 1 slot (actually 2 since the CHA item takes a slot as well). The break even point is 22! This change isn't just nerfing characters who dump CHA; it weakens everyone but powerful paladins, bards, and sorcerers.

It's not like all characters need to boost all stats equally. Since increasing INT doesn't increase skill points retroactively, typically only wizards will boost it. Characters not using STR based melee damage can get by without jacking that up. People wearing heavy armor don't need to buy up Dex. Without Int based casters, how many characters have 22 INT

Also, because every character needs to pump up CHA for magic items, character differenciation becomes a bit more difficult. We already see this with CON in our group; because of the universal need for HP, the range of character CON scores is generally much less than that of other stats.

 

[mirivor]

Jack Simth: Yeah, charisma is important for some base classes. That is all right, though. I mean, who better to wield more items than most? The sorcerer needs a boost anyway, so this could be it. Your idea of attacking charisma is good, but like all things it would get to be really old hat if every party ran into Ego Whip-wielding Psions every other encounter This idea gives a good effort at fixing the undeniably large imbalance between charisma and any other stat.

Victim: You make good points, but I will address each.

*Please preface these statements with "In Mirivor's campaign world"... saves time

Boosting stats: I should have posted in my original post that the stat booster items are gone. They do not exist. However, If they did exist, then I as a DM might consider capping them. Perhaps only sheer natural talent (I.E. enhancement bonuses don't help) allows one to partially control the item auras. This is definitely not a perfect fix, only a bit of thought on my part.

Overpenalization: Characters with a 14 charisma are certainly not dumping, unless they are in an unusual campaign. However, I don't see such characters as being punished at all. They will get to wield 7 items at once, whereas the local fighter type with an 8 (a common occurence in my experiece) only gets 4. Discounting his weapon and armor, that only leaves 2!! slots. In a campaign that uses 28 point-buy, a 14 will be one of the character's prime stats, I think. Even if someone manages an 18, that is still only 9 items, which is 4 short of the core rules maximum. I don't think that it is proper to exemplify the sorcerer and his need for charisma because the fighter exemplifies strength and prolly benefits the most from it, the wizard; intelligence, etc.

PS: The breaking point I believe is 26... 13 slots, right? I am not sure...

It's not like all characters need to boost all stats equally.

: Indeed. This is, to me, one of the worst parts of the game system. Don't get me wrong, I understand the warrior's need for a high strength and the wizard's need for a high intelligence, but the d20 system allows for too much of that min/max. I think that all of the stats should be created fairly equally, with benefits (though, not necessarily completely equal) going to ANY character that boosts the stat regardless of class. Sure, most warriors will want a point or two of strength, but they may also want some wisdom to help with skills and will saves, or some dex for intiative and armor class, etc. This system here puts charisma where it belongs: with the big boys on the block. Now it is at least the equal of the others.

Differenciation: This is a valid point, but players can come to grips with not being able to carry so many items. It is only natural that casters who use charisma will be able to wield a few more items than most because of their naturally higher charisma. But perhaps a charming rogue now has a little benefit to placing a higher stat in charisma instead of something else. Surely a little sacrifice in character differences can be made to see characters that reflect actual personality instead of joe-schmoe with another 8 or 10 charisma. After all, how many heroes are in novels with low charisma? To me, this is a good balance for the poorest statistic of all... I have yet to find a better one.

 

[harperscout]

I don't know if there is a use in trying to change a players habits... players who want to trash CHA are going to do it regardless of what you may try and do. Where I see the benefit in your mechanic is limiting the number of magical items a person carries on them. Although I realize that players have 11 slots that they can place a magic item on their person in, I don't think that means that they have to have all those slots filled. I think the number of slots just happens to be 11, its just how it came out when they determined the slots available to load a magical item. Also, the mechanic is interesting because classes like the Bard, the Paladin, and the Sorcerer have always been generally thought of as second-class characters. This moves them up in the world a bit.

I don't think it effects wealth all that much, it just means that characters have to be more creative with the wealth they obtain. Now no one says, "well, even though none of us really need the bracers of archery, I might as well wear them since I have the slot". Now, it is all about selling the stuff you don't want and improving the equipment that you have.

The more I type, the more I convince myself that it is a good idea.

 

[Jack Simth]

Jack Simth: Yeah, charisma is important for some base classes. That is all right, though. I mean, who better to wield more items than most? The sorcerer needs a boost anyway, so this could be it. Your idea of attacking charisma is good, but like all things it would get to be really old hat if every party ran into Ego Whip-wielding Psions every other encounter This idea gives a good effort at fixing the undeniably large imbalance between charisma and any other stat.

Ego Whip isn't the only way to deal Charisma damage - the Ghost, for example, can pick two different powers with the ability to deal Charisma damage (Corrupting Gaze and Draining Touch)

 

[Kisanji Arael]

I like the basic idea. How about instead of penalyzing characters though, just make it extra.

For every 3 points above 10, the character can gain the effects of one additional magic item that they are carrying (exceptions made at DMs discretion). This gives a reason to bump Charisma from 15 to sixteen for ALL characters, and means that the sorcerer gets an extra three or four items under almost all circumstances.

EDIT: I love the idea.

 

[Nyeshet]

What happens when you put on an item that increases your Charisma? I would think such items would become very popular in such a world . . .