Thornir Alekeg
Albatross!
Elf Witch said:
Hmmm, new feat? Precise Spellcasting...
find a balance between rules and role playing
- Thread starter Elf Witch
- Start date
Hmmm, new feat? Precise Spellcasting...
I never stop players from using "Metagame Precision" 
to cast their spells, or make them get caught in the blast radius, because it strikes me as petty.
I have a different way of challenging the assumptions of players who spend too much time computing AOE ranges, and placing their characters accordingly - my evil NPCs don't mind catching allies (or even more so, minions) in AOE spells at all, if doing so advances their tactical goals.
"But... But... My character is 15' from thar orc, so if you hit me with a Fireball, the orc gets hit too!"
"And your point is?"
to cast their spells, or make them get caught in the blast radius, because it strikes me as petty.I have a different way of challenging the assumptions of players who spend too much time computing AOE ranges, and placing their characters accordingly - my evil NPCs don't mind catching allies (or even more so, minions) in AOE spells at all, if doing so advances their tactical goals.
"But... But... My character is 15' from thar orc, so if you hit me with a Fireball, the orc gets hit too!"
"And your point is?"
Thanee
First Post
Elf Witch said:
In the case no map is used, which is the only really important here, I would - in the described scenario - either let it happen in your interest, or tell you that the room seems too small to place the fireball without hurting yourself.
Of course, if the room was dark and you had no way to know that... but that isn't the case here.
Characters aren't dumb (especially wizards
)!Bye
Thanee
Where the situation is messy I use Spellcraft checks a lot for precise (ie within 5') placement of the centre-point of AoE spells. One thing I'll often do is say "You can avoid fireballing your friend and maybe not get the orc, or you can fireball the orc for sure & maybe get your friend", so player has choice whether to risk it.
tonym
First Post
When a DM outlaws metagame-speak entirely, then it makes me wonder if the DM wants to trip-up the Players so he can harm their characters more often.
If I was you, I'd assume the DM was hostile and would map EVERYTHING henceforth. If it slowed the game down to a crawl, too bad. If that's the kind of game the DM wants to play, then that's how a Player protects his PC and his PC's fellow party members.
Of course, the hostile DM will send monsters to attack you while you are mapping every little nook and cranny...to make you stop. But I wouldn't stop. I'd say, "Sorry, I'd like to stop mapping everything, but remember the time with the Fireball?"
I had a DM once who refused to use figurines (I have a thousand available for use). The only reason he didn't want to use figurines, I eventually decided, was that he wanted to be able to screw-over the party during combat.
DM: "He's out-of-range, so you can't shoot at him with your bow."
...then next round...
DM: "He attacks you with his sword."
Player: "What the $%*&%$&?!?!?!?!"
Tony M
If I was you, I'd assume the DM was hostile and would map EVERYTHING henceforth. If it slowed the game down to a crawl, too bad. If that's the kind of game the DM wants to play, then that's how a Player protects his PC and his PC's fellow party members.
Of course, the hostile DM will send monsters to attack you while you are mapping every little nook and cranny...to make you stop. But I wouldn't stop. I'd say, "Sorry, I'd like to stop mapping everything, but remember the time with the Fireball?"
I had a DM once who refused to use figurines (I have a thousand available for use). The only reason he didn't want to use figurines, I eventually decided, was that he wanted to be able to screw-over the party during combat.
DM: "He's out-of-range, so you can't shoot at him with your bow."
...then next round...
DM: "He attacks you with his sword."
Player: "What the $%*&%$&?!?!?!?!"
Tony M
Terwox
First Post
As a dm, if someone is about to drop a fireball, I tell them all the possible spots they can drop the fireball, who they can hit all at once and who they can't, and how they can avoid the fireball hitting their companions.
As a player, I expect the same treatment, really. Before I ever cast, I ask who it's gonna hit and how it's going to hit. I don't need to w/ minis. As a dm, even if there all minis, I relay all the information.
Their characters know all this crap, why shouldn't the players be informed? Especially if they're int or wis casters. Int casters understand precise effects of their spells, and wisdom casters simply intuit their spells and understand the environment they're flying into. Haven't ever dm'd a sorc... I take that back. I just tell them too, just because it isn't fun to "accidently" fry your party.
As a player, I expect the same treatment, really. Before I ever cast, I ask who it's gonna hit and how it's going to hit. I don't need to w/ minis. As a dm, even if there all minis, I relay all the information.
Their characters know all this crap, why shouldn't the players be informed? Especially if they're int or wis casters. Int casters understand precise effects of their spells, and wisdom casters simply intuit their spells and understand the environment they're flying into. Haven't ever dm'd a sorc... I take that back. I just tell them too, just because it isn't fun to "accidently" fry your party.
I'm with Ozmar.
If a character is trying to do something that may be stupid, I make sure I've communicated all the details necessary for them to make an informed decision. Even then, I'll offer 'common sense' hints for obvious things, or Int or Wis checks for more subtle things.
Metagame thinking goes both ways... the player may know things that the character wouldn't, and the character would know things that the player wouldn't. It's difficult to communicate enough detail of the game world without accidentally throwing red herrings or giving away too much (the old 'if the DM said it it's important' thing).
For instance, my group was tailing a small group of chanting cultists across a rather flat, open moor. When the Wizard wanted to cast a spell, I let him know that even though the spongy, dank ground seemed to dampen sound, there was a decent chance the cultists would hear the verbal components since there was no other sound. Hey, 22 Int. When the rather dim (8 Int) Paladin was pushed to the front to do some Diplomacy with a doorman later, and the player had to respond with a code word (that I dropped on them in an obvious way earlier), I made him roll a check to see if I would give him the hint. He failed. Combat ensued.
The idea I run with is to balance the player's and character's knowledge so that things make sense. Would a 5th level wizard be able to judge a Fireball perfectly? Depends, but in a difficult situation he risks blowing it. Would an 18th level wizard? Absolutely, and I'd tell him extra things that weren't immediately obvious if I felt the (extremely experienced and knowledgeable) character would know.
If a character is trying to do something that may be stupid, I make sure I've communicated all the details necessary for them to make an informed decision. Even then, I'll offer 'common sense' hints for obvious things, or Int or Wis checks for more subtle things.
Metagame thinking goes both ways... the player may know things that the character wouldn't, and the character would know things that the player wouldn't. It's difficult to communicate enough detail of the game world without accidentally throwing red herrings or giving away too much (the old 'if the DM said it it's important' thing).
For instance, my group was tailing a small group of chanting cultists across a rather flat, open moor. When the Wizard wanted to cast a spell, I let him know that even though the spongy, dank ground seemed to dampen sound, there was a decent chance the cultists would hear the verbal components since there was no other sound. Hey, 22 Int. When the rather dim (8 Int) Paladin was pushed to the front to do some Diplomacy with a doorman later, and the player had to respond with a code word (that I dropped on them in an obvious way earlier), I made him roll a check to see if I would give him the hint. He failed. Combat ensued.
The idea I run with is to balance the player's and character's knowledge so that things make sense. Would a 5th level wizard be able to judge a Fireball perfectly? Depends, but in a difficult situation he risks blowing it. Would an 18th level wizard? Absolutely, and I'd tell him extra things that weren't immediately obvious if I felt the (extremely experienced and knowledgeable) character would know.
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