Firbolgs - A PC Race From VOLO'S GUIDE TO MONSTERS

Interesting. A bit of a departure from depictions in earlier editions. Much more nature oriented...seems they're playing up the fey aspect based on the Celtic origins of the race.

 

[Marandahir]

Honestly, I'd prefer the feat to be limited to races with the Powerful Build feature rather than limited to the Firbolg race, since it would open the door for Goliaths to use it, as well as other pseudo-large races like the Unearthed Arcana Minotaur.

 

[Yunru]

Giant sized weapons could still work. It just shouldn't be the same as monster's giant weapons, where a second dice is added, since monsters and PC races no longer need to have symmetry,

It could be something like "when you use a larger sized weapon the dice increases by one size" or "when you use a large sized weapon you deal an additional +1 (or +2) damage".

And when the PC asks why (s)he can't use the Ogre's greatclub for 2d8 when it's clearly the same weapon wielded the same way?

While it's accurate to say there's no longer symmetry, that's because symmetry requires two different objects, whereas 5E's system has (partially) merged.

 

[Jester David]

And when the PC asks why (s)he can't use the Ogre's greatclub for 2d8 when it's clearly the same weapon wielded the same way?

While it's accurate to say there's no longer symmetry, that's because symmetry requires two different objects, whereas 5E's system has (partially) merged.

The answer to that is "because that's the rules" or "because balance".

You can make up some handwavy explanation otherwise (not all Large weapons are sized the same, not enough mass to hit with as much force, not balanced for a creature your size) but at the end of the day you're still playing a game with rules. And a firbolg not being able to deal as much damage with an ogre club makes as much sense as the halfling fighter being able to wield the goliath barbarian's battleaxe without penalty. (If the halfling can do that, why can't the goliath weild the ogre's club for that matter?)

It comes down to what's more important: symmetry between monsters and PCs or player races having classical abilities?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So, we have elves and gnomes for "normal" sized and small Fey, Firbolgs for forest giant types.

IMO we still need Quicklings, wilden, and stuff like satyrs/fauns, sprites/pixies, dryads/nymphs, and maybe an elf or gnome subrace that's a bit more puck-like, maybe even a Puca.
And something like hengeyokai. I can't really imagine a Fey campaign without them.

Id be fine with a small supliment like heroes of the feywild, tho.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It comes down to what's more important: symmetry between monsters and PCs or player races having classical abilities?

Symmetry. There are a few rules that are important to be symmetric. Weapon damage is on of that, as is AC. I am already not so glad with challenge determining the roficiency bonus. Monsters usually lag 1 point behind if you compare PCs and NPCs.
I wished they had stayed with monster level instead of challenge. Or challenge defined as being able to stand up to a single PC instead of 4. That way, proficiency bonus would be equal on both sides. But that ship has sailed.

I really don´t see a reason why firbolgs need to be 10 ft, when 8 ft is also really tall and still medium size. That is ok. The bugbear actually has a racial ability that emulates bigger weapons. I could see firbolgs having something similar as a racial ability... but being large and not being able to use large weapons sucks.

 

[ccooke]

I can see the basics of a feat for "Bigger than usual" medium humanoids. Something along these lines:

Strong Arm
Pre-requisite: STR 15+

* You count as one size category larger when making Strength[Athletics] checks
* When you use a one-handed melee weapon that does not have the versatile property, it counts as a light weapon
* When you use a melee weapon with the versatile property in one hand, you may use the higher damage value as if you used two hands.

Basically - you're not Large, but you're noticeably larger than most Medium creatures and gain a few advantages. You can't wield something that's only designed to be used as a two-handed weapon with one hand, but you have a bit more flexibility with other weapons. You get a few more options for two-weapon fighting (basically, you can wield two 1d8 weapons), and you can deal a bit more damage going sword-and-board. The size category for Strength[Athletics] means you can be more effective grappling and shoving, whether you're doing it yourself or someone is doing it to you.

[size=-2]Edited: Changed name of the feat to avoid using the same name as the racial trait[/size]

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Why not allow the two handers in one hand, but at a decreased damage die, just like using a versatile weapon one handed vs two handed?

Might cause problems with reach weapons, but still it shoudl be fine as a feat.

i also like the idea of powerful build treating you as large for str checks AND hiding, but I don't like the idea of shoehorning a race, so ultimately I like what they did.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The answer to that is "because that's the rules" or "because balance".

You can make up some handwavy explanation otherwise (not all Large weapons are sized the same, not enough mass to hit with as much force, not balanced for a creature your size) but at the end of the day you're still playing a game with rules. And a firbolg not being able to deal as much damage with an ogre club makes as much sense as the halfling fighter being able to wield the goliath barbarian's battleaxe without penalty. (If the halfling can do that, why can't the goliath weild the ogre's club for that matter?)

It comes down to what's more important: symmetry between monsters and PCs or player races having classical abilities?

I'm not a fan of needless symmetry, but I'm less of a fan of needless complexity.

"You can use Large-sized weapons, but only these specific weapons, which are not the same as other Large-sized weapons...for *handwave*" is a lot more thorny than "you're not Large, so you can't use weapons made for Large creatures."

 

[ccooke]

Why not allow the two handers in one hand, but at a decreased damage die, just like using a versatile weapon one handed vs two handed?

Might cause problems with reach weapons, but still it shoudl be fine as a feat.

i also like the idea of powerful build treating you as large for str checks AND hiding, but I don't like the idea of shoehorning a race, so ultimately I like what they did.

Because that would be awfully complicated - there's no "natural" reduced die for each of the two handed weapons. In particular, reducing the die for Greataxe (d12) and Greatsword (2d12) without ruining the fine balance between them of reliability vs spike damage. If you make the Greataxe do d10, you'd need the greatsword to do 2d5... or 2d10/2. Awful and complicated. Or you break the linkage and then you're going to make one of them worse.

In the suggested feat, I made it affect only Strength[Athletics] because that's about the application of your strength - a little extra height and weight and some training to use it means you're a bit harder to knock down or grapple. It's uses the language that the bigger playable races get (count as one size category larger), but it provides a different effect to allow the feat to complement those races nicely.

That's not saying I think my quick feat idea is perfect, but I do think it's worth considering as a baseline

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Because that would be awfully complicated - there's no "natural" reduced die for each of the two handed weapons. In particular, reducing the die for Greataxe (d12) and Greatsword (2d12) without ruining the fine balance between them of reliability vs spike damage. If you make the Greataxe do d10, you'd need the greatsword to do 2d5... or 2d10/2. Awful and complicated. Or you break the linkage and then you're going to make one of them worse.

In the suggested feat, I made it affect only Strength[Athletics] because that's about the application of your strength - a little extra height and weight and some training to use it means you're a bit harder to knock down or grapple. It's uses the language that the bigger playable races get (count as one size category larger), but it provides a different effect to allow the feat to complement those races nicely.

That's not saying I think my quick feat idea is perfect, but I do think it's worth considering as a baseline

So, provide a progression in the feat.

As for the great sword and great ax, I'm fine with one being very slightly better than the other in the very specific case of members of a few races who take a specific feat.

Or, how about this. When they use such weapons two handed, they get a dice benefit, and do normal damage one handed?