Fire Elemental question

[Prince Sharam]

I'm not making things up, don't act like a retarded person.

These are diametrically opposed, which is why they even get attack bonuses/penalties against the opposites - in the case of elementals, and we have "Smite Evil, Smite Good, Smite Law, Smite Chaos" for the alignment system.

I'm also not doubting their "vulernability to cold" due to their Fire subtye, but since rules weren't written for this, we're improvising, and if that warrants a push to "house rules", then push for that, in the meantime until it's moved there, don't mock others with opinions that have a solid approval.

Let me ask you something - are most fires also going to last when they're in an ocean?

Lastly, while your reasoning is founded upon what you consider to be sound evidence, it's not RAW, so it's just as feasible/likely as ours.

 

[darthkilmor]

Hm, but what if the water is warm/hot?

I'd think even the air temprature to such a being would be "cold/cool" as well

Water has an upper limit of temperature, that of boiling. regardless, its still "relatively" cold compared to the fire elementals own temp. a difference of 1930 F or 1800 F or whatever temp a fire elemental is is still a huge difference in temp.

The SRD says the fire elemental can't enter any water or nonflammable liquid. It says nothing about air. And since DnD doesnt gel with physics, the fact that air has too little mass to suck up hardly any heat from an everburning source of heat doesnt really matter. And the SRD says nothing about air wrt the fire elemental either so thats doubly irrelevant. And since the SRD is lacking with details about what happens to a fire elemental on or in water, its all speculation and interpretation and house rules anyway.

 

[Prince Sharam]

Water has an upper limit of temperature, that of boiling. regardless, its still "relatively" cold compared to the fire elementals own temp. a difference of 1930 F or 1800 F or whatever temp a fire elemental is is still a huge difference in temp.

The SRD says the fire elemental can't enter any water or nonflammable liquid. It says nothing about air. And since DnD doesnt gel with physics, the fact that air has too little mass to suck up hardly any heat from an everburning source of heat doesnt really matter. And the SRD says nothing about air wrt the fire elemental either so thats doubly irrelevant. And since the SRD is lacking with details about what happens to a fire elemental on or in water, its all speculation and interpretation and house rules anyway.

So by that ruling, a fire elemental would not consume the oxygen in a room?

 

[JimAde]

So by that ruling, a fire elemental would not consume the oxygen in a room?

That's right. Not because of darthkilmor's statement, but because the SRD says elementals don't breathe. If they consumed oxygen, they would presumably need oxygen in some sense. But they don't, so I would assume they don't consume it normally.

Now when they set normal objects on fire, that fire consumes oxygen (of course) so it's kind of a moot point.

 

[Prince Sharam]

I had Shadows and a water trap

now I can add Fire Elemental and the barn on my list of player deathtraps!

 

[Scion]

These are diametrically opposed

Prove it.

I have shown the rules, you have been making things up as far as I can tell. So prove your point, useing the rules.

Let me ask you something - are most fires also going to last when they're in an ocean?

You mean compare real world fires that need a source of fuel and oxygen vs the d&d world fire elemental which needs neither?

Take a fire elemental, put it in an empty room, come back 20 years later, elemental is fine.
Take a piece of 'fire' in the real world, put it in an empty room, come back 20 years later.. there hasnt been a fire there in quite some time. Whether it ran out of air, fuel, or whatever else it may need who knows. Obviously they act differently.

Some fires can and will burn in and on the ocean. It all depends on what they are made of and their properties.

The fire elemental doesnt care, he is just another creature.

Lastly, while your reasoning is founded upon what you consider to be sound evidence, it's not RAW, so it's just as feasible/likely as ours.

Umm.. I have used nothing but raw. Fire elementals are vulnerable to cold and have an aversion to water. That is it.

Stating that one destroys the other is outside of the raw and not even all that realistic in the real world.



So again, please support your position according to the raw. Otherwise it is meaningless for this forum.

 

[darthkilmor]

So to sum this thread up: RAW doesn't say what should happen to a fire elemental thats forced into water(or nonflammable liquid of choice), or whether you can even force it into the water(or nonflammable liquid of choice). Happy House Ruling!

 

[Prince Sharam]

Prove it.

I have shown the rules, you have been making things up as far as I can tell. So prove your point, useing the rules.



You mean compare real world fires that need a source of fuel and oxygen vs the d&d world fire elemental which needs neither?

Take a fire elemental, put it in an empty room, come back 20 years later, elemental is fine.
Take a piece of 'fire' in the real world, put it in an empty room, come back 20 years later.. there hasnt been a fire there in quite some time. Whether it ran out of air, fuel, or whatever else it may need who knows. Obviously they act differently.

Some fires can and will burn in and on the ocean. It all depends on what they are made of and their properties.

The fire elemental doesnt care, he is just another creature.





Umm.. I have used nothing but raw. Fire elementals are vulnerable to cold and have an aversion to water. That is it.

Stating that one destroys the other is outside of the raw and not even all that realistic in the real world.



So again, please support your position according to the raw. Otherwise it is meaningless for this forum.

Thanks for repeating all what I said!

Prove it!



Ooh, I love this line! So childish and overused. Yes, once you can gate us into a D&D world, then you're free to ridicule my opinion. This of course would be your only proof since no rules are set by any WOTC official source as to how this works... Then we can compare summoning Fire Elementals and pushing them into the water and so forth. Otherwise, shut up.

You should swap "some" with "very few" and regardless, all real world fires need fuel of some sort. Does a Fire Elemental need fuel? No, so they're different, very much so. You still don't know what would happen based on "real life" examples, thus either side is valid.

The only thing "meaningless" here is your incessant agenda to argue with me.

 

[Scion]

By the raw nothing happens if you force a fire elemental into water. They are not diametrically opposed as far as I can tell, no rules support this.

The raw does say:

A fire elemental cannot enter water or any other nonflammable liquid. A body of water is an impassible barrier unless the fire elemental can step or jump over it.

but this in no way supports your position.

Unless a dm wishes to houserule fire elementals to be vulnerable to water then they are not. It is as simple as that.

Unless of course we want to fall back on the fire - water, earth - air that was posted above. Which would seem to mean that an earth elemental walking around surrounded by air should be taking some sort of damage as well... Oddly enough however that sort of thing seems to be outside of the raw.

Fire elementals do not need fuel or air. So again, what about water exactly is going to harm them directly?

 

[Rystil Arden]

And the third time's the charm

And with shilsen as the third, that's even more weight