Fire Giant Dreadnoughts in VOLO's GUIDE TO MONSTERS

WotC posted this image a couple of days ago, along with a brief note that that Volo's Guide to Monsters has "quite an extensive entry" on Fire Giant Dreadnoughts. Spiky! Also check out yesterday's Giant Lore preview, and the preface - there's a bit of a giant-based focus o the previews, which is likely because Storm King's Thunder is the current storyline. The book hits stores on November 15th (November 4th in preferred stores).

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[AaronOfBarbaria]

Well if we are just imagining stuff...

How is that not what D&D is normally?

...then how about a Shield too heavy for a Giant to lift?

Oooh, like a tower shield used in some ancient war by a Titan of prodigious strength even for its race? That would be really cool, actually - I could have it sort of stuck in the dirt at an angle, and the party could battle giants upon the sloped surface, scrabbling from stud to stud trying to get to the top edge to stop some nefarious time consuming plot device while giants bounce boulders down at them and lurk above/behind some of the studs to bash the party with clubs.

 

[dave2008]

Has anyone noticed that the actual description in Volo's tells us that the shields are hollow and that these fire giants are stronger than the average (in the fluff and STR of 27 vs 25).

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

My point is that the shields depicted in that image do not exist any more than a dragon does; the nearest real thing to each is equally distant - much smaller in size, and with notably different anatomy/construction.

Because yes, a shield is a real thing. So is a lizard.

Fantasy anatomy/physiology doesn't have to imply fantasy mechanical engineering, or bad mechanical engineering.

 

[dave2008]

Fantasy anatomy/physiology doesn't have to imply fantasy mechanical engineering, or ...

But it can. Personally I would like some of my fantasy games to have, well, fantastic engineering. That can be a good bit of the fun

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Fantasy anatomy/physiology doesn't have to imply fantasy mechanical engineering, or bad mechanical engineering.

You are right - the game could be explicit that fantasy anatomy is allowed, thus resulting in 18' tall humanoids called fire giants, and that fantasy mechanical engineering is disallowed, giving us the result of giants that literally never wear metal armor because proportionate armor for their body would be entirely too heavy for the already-impossible-beings to lift, let alone move about in.

I just don't see why one would say "that's fine" to one intentionally fantasy element and not also say "that's fine" to the other.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

You are right - the game could be explicit that fantasy anatomy is allowed, thus resulting in 18' tall humanoids called fire giants, and that fantasy mechanical engineering is disallowed, giving us the result of giants that literally never wear metal armor because proportionate armor for their body would be entirely too heavy for the already-impossible-beings to lift, let alone move about in.

I just don't see why one would say "that's fine" to one intentionally fantasy element and not also say "that's fine" to the other.

Let's do the math.

Plate armor for a human is 65 lb.

A Fire Giant is about 18' tall according to the MM. That means it's about 3x as large as a human in all dimensions, and therefore has 9x the surface area.

If you maintain the thickness of the armor but make it 9x as big in surface area, it has 9x the volume and therefore 9x the weight.

Plate armor for a Fire Giant weighs about 585 lb. Call it 800 lb. if you want to strategically thicken certain areas or widen it to account for their stocky build.

A Fire Giant has a Str of 25. Carrying capacity for Str 25 is 25 * 15 * 4 (for being Huge) = 1500 lb.

Ergo, fantasy physiology (Str 25 + 4x carrying capacity for being Huge, per PHB rules) implies that regular mechanical engineering is 100% A-OK. You don't need fantasy mechanical engineering to get fire giant plate armor to work.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Let's do the math.

Plate armor for a human is 65 lb.

A Fire Giant is about 18' tall according to the MM. That means it's about 3x as large as a human in all dimensions, and therefore has 9x the surface area.

If you maintain the thickness of the armor but make it 9x as big in surface area, it has 9x the volume and therefore 9x the weight.

Plate armor for a Fire Giant weighs about 585 lb. Call it 800 lb. if you want to strategically thicken certain areas or widen it to account for their stocky build.

A Fire Giant has a Str of 25. Carrying capacity for Str 25 is 25 * 15 * 4 (for being Huge) = 1500 lb.

Ergo, fantasy physiology (Str 25 + 4x carrying capacity for being Huge, per PHB rules) implies that regular mechanical engineering is 100% A-OK. You don't need fantasy mechanical engineering to get fire giant plate armor to work.

But...but....but the shields!!!!!!! Aaaaagh! So ridiculous!

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

But...but....but the shields!!!!!!! Aaaaagh! So ridiculous!

Yes, but they're ridiculous on a human scale too. Also, those shields clearly have been thickened proportionately to the Fire Giant's size, for some odd reason.

We call that "bad engineering."

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Let's do the math.

Plate armor for a human is 65 lb.

A Fire Giant is about 18' tall according to the MM. That means it's about 3x as large as a human in all dimensions, and therefore has 9x the surface area.

If you maintain the thickness of the armor but make it 9x as big in surface area, it has 9x the volume and therefore 9x the weight.

Plate armor for a Fire Giant weighs about 585 lb. Call it 800 lb. if you want to strategically thicken certain areas or widen it to account for their stocky build.

A Fire Giant has a Str of 25. Carrying capacity for Str 25 is 25 * 15 * 4 (for being Huge) = 1500 lb.

Ergo, fantasy physiology (Str 25 + 4x carrying capacity for being Huge, per PHB rules) implies that regular mechanical engineering is 100% A-OK. You don't need fantasy mechanical engineering to get fire giant plate armor to work.

Your "math" doesn't actually make all that much sense given it includes a fantasy-ism by way of the abstract carrying capacity rules, and doesn't address the reality that is likely the material will actually need to be made proportionally thicker in order to maintain similar structural integrity (i.e. not bend under its own weight if set down while not being worn).

There is a line we must all draw between what we find to be suitable fantasy and what we find to be too fantastic - I just don't think anyone should consider it reasonable to draw that line between an impossible creature and it's impossible armament.

 

[dave2008]

Yes, but they're ridiculous on a human scale too. Also, those shields clearly have been thickened proportionately to the Fire Giant's size, for some odd reason.

We call that "bad engineering."

Actually they are not thickened, they are hollow. It is explained in Volo's. They are quite "fantastic" actually