Fire into Grapple with Large vs Medium creature
- Thread starter Nail
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frankthedm
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No. That option would be listed. If you fire into a grapple, you determine who gets hit randomly.Nail said:
Now on grapple, it is less than clear how that interacts when a grappler is larger than the person's space he is moving into...
Step 4
Maintain Grapple. To maintain the grapple for later rounds, you must move into the target’s space. (This movement is free and doesn’t count as part of your movement in the round.)
But it is clearer with improved grab since the monster has to be larger, thus having a larger space, than the victim
When a creature gets a hold after an improved grab attack, it pulls the opponent into its space.
And it feels like the escape grapple was also written with that idea in mind.
Escape from Grapple
...If you escape, you finish the action by moving into any space adjacent to your opponent(s).
Thus many folks use the baseline for sharing spaces from ride in the grapplers if different sizes situation.
A question. If you go by the the medium creature is only in one space of the larger creature, how it it decided which space the medium victim is in?
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Nail
First Post
frankthedm said:
I *think* the best way to do this is to follow along on that "random" principle.
Use the size of the respective creatures to determine the chance of hitting one with a missle weapon. So for a Medium vs Large grapple, the chance of hitting the medium creature is 1 in 4, and hitting the large creature is 3 in 4.
airwalkrr
Adventurer
Since the "roll randomly" rules are not explicitly described, this is how I do it.
I base it on the number of squares a creature occupies in three dimensions. A tall large creature occupies four squares below and four above for a total of 8 squares. An archer attacking a tall large creature grappling a medium creature would have a 1 in 9 chance of hitting the medium creature. I do not apply the firing into melee penalty unless the two are actually in melee with each other (i.e. threatening each other, which they are not while grappling). A long large creature occupies only four squares below for a total of 4 squares. Said archer would have a 1 in 5 chance of hitting the medium creature in this case. Determining whether a creature is tall or long is simply a matter of examining its reach. If its reach equals its space, then the creature is tall. If its reach is less than its space, then the creature is long.
Extrapolate this formula for huge, etc.
I ignore creatures size tiny or smaller (such as a familiar) for simplicity.
I base it on the number of squares a creature occupies in three dimensions. A tall large creature occupies four squares below and four above for a total of 8 squares. An archer attacking a tall large creature grappling a medium creature would have a 1 in 9 chance of hitting the medium creature. I do not apply the firing into melee penalty unless the two are actually in melee with each other (i.e. threatening each other, which they are not while grappling). A long large creature occupies only four squares below for a total of 4 squares. Said archer would have a 1 in 5 chance of hitting the medium creature in this case. Determining whether a creature is tall or long is simply a matter of examining its reach. If its reach equals its space, then the creature is tall. If its reach is less than its space, then the creature is long.
Extrapolate this formula for huge, etc.
I ignore creatures size tiny or smaller (such as a familiar) for simplicity.
Correct. From the Rules of the Game:Beckett said:
"You share your foe's space when you're grappling. If you and your foe are different sizes, use the larger of the two space entries. Any attack that can reach the shared space can hit you. You don't get cover from a foe you're grappling, but any ranged attack aimed into your shared space has an equal chance to strike you or the creature you're grappling. Roll randomly to determine which creature a ranged attack strikes (see note 3 on Table 8-6 in the Player's Handbook)."
Obligatory disclaimer: this post is solely for those that desire to use the RotG.
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Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
mvincent said:
Well, he's making a couple of things up there and claiming them authoritatively.
He really should note when he's adding things that aren't in the rules.
-Hyp.
Obligatory disclaimer added to my post, but I believe the description (and intent) of the RotG serves as enough of a notice otherwise.Hypersmurf said:
However, he does seem to be re-stating the general, known rules regarding shared space (ala mounts), and the core rules themselves state that grapplers occupy the same space:
"to maintain the grapple for later rounds, you must move into the target’s space"
Did you have a basis for contesting it?
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mvincent said:
Very interesting...
Does this mean that if a medium sized creature grapples a huge creature with the -20 penalty to still threaten an area, they now threaten the same area as a huge creature?
Also, can I grapple a huge creature on one side, then choose any square adjacent to the huge creature to end up in when I disengage?
I smell potential for warriors with a druid friend.
A few corrections here:Deset Gled said:
1) That option is only available to creatures with the "Improved grab" special ability
2) Improved grab works only against "opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature"*
3) Even without using improved grab, "you automatically lose an attempt to hold if the target is two or more size categories larger than you are".
4) You would not get the creature's reach (you probably didn't mean that, but I didn't want to assume).
5) You could instead just ride a huge mount in order to increase your threatened area.
* boctaoe
Other than as mentioned above, I suppose so (much like mounting and dismounting a huge creature).
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