Firearms

[tglassy]

Also called a Firebolt.

 

[Satyrn]

But in gun form! In the hands of kobolds! Swarms of kobolds!

 

[77IM]

Stop talking about realism, and start talking about genre conventions. Some genres are realistic, some genres are decidedly unrealistic (even cartoonish), and most are in-between. There's nothing wrong with gaming in any of these genres; but it is super helpful to know what genre you are trying to emulate.

The image of clouds of smoke hovering over a ship's deck during a raging gunfight is very well suited to the swashbuckling-fantasy genre I want, so I'll probably include that somehow (probably as a "DM's discretion" thing).

 

[S'mon]

I'm not even so sure it's that big a deal. Why do firearms have to be particularly lethal? They just punch holes in people down range. Spears punch holes in people, arrows & quarrels punch holes in people - a dagger can certainly kill, but only does a d4.
Historically what made firearms so revolutionary wasn't that they were deadlier or longer-ranged than bows but that they required less training and physical ability to use, so you could field more troops armed with them. What made them fearsome to peoples unfamiliar with them was the noise (and that the projectile might not be noted right away), as much as the lethality. Oh, and the sheer amount of smoke from black powder is just crazy, modern powder is rightly called 'smokeless.'

So, if we really want to model firearms well in the game, they'd be 'simple' weapons, that would do decent damage without much regard to who's using them (no stat bonus to damage), and hit reasonably well, again without much regard to training (a static bonus to hit instead of proficiency, perhaps). And, of course, a low RoF, due to reloading, so all those Extra Attacks and such you get at high level are meaningless.
Appealing at low level, meh beyond that.

High velocity wounds tear rather than cut, and are much more deadly than knife or arrow wounds. It is a myth that bullets don't do much damage. A small bullet wound is a good bit deadlier than a large knife wound.

You can compare injury to death rates on eg crime stat reports. Mind you, even most bullet wounds are not immediately fatal.

 

[S'mon]

Stop talking about realism, and start talking about genre conventions. Some genres are realistic, some genres are decidedly unrealistic (even cartoonish), and most are in-between. There's nothing wrong with gaming in any of these genres; but it is super helpful to know what genre you are trying to emulate.

The image of clouds of smoke hovering over a ship's deck during a raging gunfight is very well suited to the swashbuckling-fantasy genre I want, so I'll probably include that somehow (probably as a "DM's discretion" thing).

The genre convention is that people who get hit fall over. Very unlike DnD.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

The image of clouds of smoke hovering over a ship's deck during a raging gunfight is very well suited to the swashbuckling-fantasy genre I want, so I'll probably include that somehow (probably as a "DM's discretion" thing).

Something I'd have to just to make a battle interesting, much like how I could rule that the ship is listing to the Starboard side during a battle and everyone on deck is required to make a Acrobatic (Dex) Check or be forced to move 10 feet in the Starboard direction. It's not something that needs to happen all the time, but it's a complication that can happen.

 

[Tony Vargas]

High velocity wounds tear rather than cut, and are much more deadly than knife or arrow wounds. It is a myth that bullets don't do much damage. A small bullet wound is a good bit deadlier than a large knife wound.

I've heard all sides in such debates way too much to get into it, there's political issues fueling different sides, and it involves autopsy-level detail that'll never be modeled with a hp system.

The takeaway is that lots of things can kill you, where guns stand out is in how easy they make it, regardless of size/strength/skill of either party involved.

The genre convention is that people who get hit fall over. Very unlike DnD.

'cept for 4e, iff, by 'people' you mean 'minions.'

 

[Morrus]

High velocity wounds tear rather than cut, and are much more deadly than knife or arrow wounds. It is a myth that bullets don't do much damage. A small bullet wound is a good bit deadlier than a large knife wound.

I dunno. I saw a “large knife wound” on Game of Thrones. It made Ned Stark’s head fall off.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

One thing that's brought up elsewhere is NPCs and other creatures using firearms, that they'd somehow be too much for PCs, looking on pages 274-275 of the DMG it might normalize many creatures low-level creatures to CR 1/2. But some creatures aren't going to have their CR adjusted just because they're using firearms, a CR 3 Veteran armed with a Musket (1d12) with a Bayonet (1d8 piercing in melee, lose the bonus shortword attack) is still a CR 3 creature.

Of course there's going to be special cases and a whole new statblock required if the DM throws in things like an Ogre Cannoneer. As in an Ogre carrying around an Artillery Cannon, and now has a area attack that does 3d10 damage (dex save for half), sure it's melee attack where it tries to club your with that cannon probably still does a base of 2d8, but it could not be represented by applying minor adjustments to the Ogre statblock (an Ogre that can fire a cannon is probably slightly smarter than an average Ogre too), and is at least a CR 4 or 5 creature.

 

[dostami]

so they added a pistol to the game...wow! Who would have ever guessed! lol