Fireball pellet discussion brings up an interesting question

[LokiDR]

All you have to do is step in front of the thing. The bead travels at high speeds, yes, but it also must travel in a straight line. It would be no different than intercepting an arrow attack with your body because your buddy is low on hit points.



I wouldn't say that unless I was in the house rules forum, but hey, that's just me. Seriously though, I don't think adhoc rules are necessary here. You can already do this within the rules, and to top it off, it's fully supported. If you can get in front of the bead within a partial action, then it isn't a big deal at all, not for me anyway.

Hey, if the rules say: "You can take an arrow for some one else if you have a readied action", I would go with that. I don't remember it in the rules. Do you have a page reference? I know the 1st level ability of devoted defender allows the character to take attacks their charge. That is the closest I know of.

 

[kreynolds]

Hey, if the rules say: "You can take an arrow for some one else if you have a readied action", I would go with that. I don't remember it in the rules.

Some-one's be-eing a smar-rt-ass.

Do you have a page reference?

Readied action. Just ready an action to step of front of your buddy if the bad guy attacks him with a bow. The bad gay raises his bow, draws back, and fires, meaning he attacks, meaning your readied action goes off, meaning you step in front of your buddy, meaning the arrow might hit you instead.

Basics of combat really.

 

[Pielorinho]

Readied action. Just ready an action to step of front of your buddy if the bad guy attacks him with a bow. The bad gay raises his bow, draws back, and fires, meaning he attacks, meaning your readied action goes off, meaning you step in front of your buddy, meaning the arrow might hit you instead.

Basics of combat really.

kreynolds, does that mean that you'd be willing to let someone walk 30' to intercept an arrow coming from 10' away, as in my example above?

I could see allowing someone to take a readied action to make a 5' step into an arrow's path. But readied actions allow any partial action to be taken in response to a trigger. I'd think rule 0 would be necessary to prevent silliness, if the loosing of an arrow is allowed as a readied action trigger.

(Consider, for example, that an arrow's speed allows it to travel 600' in a round, and that in my example, Y is moving 3 times faster than the arrow moves as a partial action. If Y runs at the speed he's moving at in the example, that puts him at 5,400 feet/round -- almost 600 miles an hour. Silliness?)

Daniel

 

[LokiDR]

Some-one's be-eing a smar-rt-ass.

Readied action. Just ready an action to step of front of your buddy if the bad guy attacks him with a bow. The bad gay raises his bow, draws back, and fires, meaning he attacks, meaning your readied action goes off, meaning you step in front of your buddy, meaning the arrow might hit you instead.

Basics of combat really.

Smart ass till I get a smart answer

Seriously though, you just provided cover. I'm cool with that, but it isn't an absolute, unless a person provides full cover. From the -4 for shooting into melee, it looks like a person in combat provides 1/2 cover. Which is it?

 

[LokiDR]

kreynolds, does that mean that you'd be willing to let someone walk 30' to intercept an arrow coming from 10' away, as in my example above?

I could see allowing someone to take a readied action to make a 5' step into an arrow's path. But readied actions allow any partial action to be taken in response to a trigger. I'd think rule 0 would be necessary to prevent silliness, if the loosing of an arrow is allowed as a readied action trigger.

(Consider, for example, that an arrow's speed allows it to travel 600' in a round, and that in my example, Y is moving 3 times faster than the arrow moves as a partial action. If Y runs at the speed he's moving at in the example, that puts him at 5,400 feet/round -- almost 600 miles an hour. Silliness?)

Daniel

I can see the person getting in front of the target. Readied action happens before the trigger. "If he shoots at Bob, I want to run in front of Bob to take the shot" Archer draws and is aiming at Bob, you move, archer shoots. Makes sense to me, if you could do it on your turn, you can do as a readied action.

 

[Pielorinho]

I can see the person getting in front of the target. Readied action happens before the trigger. "If he shoots at Bob, I want to run in front of Bob to take the shot" Archer draws and is aiming at Bob, you move, archer shoots. Makes sense to me, if you could do it on your turn, you can do as a readied action.

The way you describe it makes more sense, with two caveats:

1) The readier needs to have some way of knowing at whom the archer is aiming. If there's only one possible opponent, the readier has a reasonably good idea why the archer is pulling out an arrow; otherwise, I'd require a hefty sense motive check (DC 15 + archers ranged attack bonus, maybe) to figure out the correct target. Consider that the readier has to figure out who's being shot at and move 30' between the time the archer raises her bow and the arrow strikes its target. Not easy.

2) I'd set the readied-action-trigger to "when the arrow is loosed from the bow" to make it an analogy to a fireball pellet. Unless you have spellcraft, you've got very little chance of knowing what a fireball pellet's trajectory will be before it's fired; once it's fired, you've got very little chance of intercepting it.

If, however, someone wanted to use their readied action to move as soon as the spellcaster begins chanting, I'd allow them to do that. I'd have to check on when the spell's area of effect is determined: if it's determined at the end of the spell, then the caster could easily adjust so that the pellet wouldn't be intercepted. If it's determined at the beginning of the spell, and only if, the readier stands a reasonable chance of intercepting the spell -- as long as he's correctly guessed the pellet's trajectory.

Daniel

 

[Chaldfont]

I know this rant doesn't really belong on this forum, since its the Rules forum and not the DMing Style forum, but I just gotta say it.

I hate it when players think up a fun and exciting tactic in a game, only to have a DM put up all kinds of rules obstacles in his way. DMs should encourage this kind of imagination!

Which game would you rather play in?

Game A:
Paladin Player: "I can't let these innocents be killed by the evil spells of Malathion the Malignant! I ready an action to dive in front of the next fireball and soak the damage!"
Other Players: "No way! Cool!"
DM: "Ok, you don't know if the next spell is going to be a fireball or not so make a Spellcraft check. If you succeed, you will have to determine the wizard's target, so you can get in the way. Make a Sense Motive check. If you make that, then make a Dex check, figuring in your armor check penalty for your full plate to jump in front of the spell."
Paladin Player: "Ok, in that case I just ready and action to attack with my sword."

Game B:
Paladin Player: "I can't let these innocents be killed by the evil spells of Malathion the Malignant! I ready an action to dive in front of the next fireball and soak the damage!"
Other Players: "No way! Cool!"
DM: "Sweet! The divine power of St. Martin the Defender flows through you, allowing you to move quickly to defend the innocent and ignore the weight of your heavy armor. Hmmmm. Check off one Turn Undead usage for the day and we'll call it even."

If the characters have a better chance to succeed by saying, "I attack the orc with my axe," than by saying, "I rush the orc, screaming my battle cry, but at the last minute I tuck my head under and just plow into him, bringing us both to the ground," then they will always pick the first option.

Make it easier to do cool stuff, not harder.

 

[LokiDR]

The way you describe it makes more sense, with two caveats:

1) The readier needs to have some way of knowing at whom the archer is aiming. If there's only one possible opponent, the readier has a reasonably good idea why the archer is pulling out an arrow; otherwise, I'd require a hefty sense motive check (DC 15 + archers ranged attack bonus, maybe) to figure out the correct target. Consider that the readier has to figure out who's being shot at and move 30' between the time the archer raises her bow and the arrow strikes its target. Not easy.

2) I'd set the readied-action-trigger to "when the arrow is loosed from the bow" to make it an analogy to a fireball pellet. Unless you have spellcraft, you've got very little chance of knowing what a fireball pellet's trajectory will be before it's fired; once it's fired, you've got very little chance of intercepting it.

If, however, someone wanted to use their readied action to move as soon as the spellcaster begins chanting, I'd allow them to do that. I'd have to check on when the spell's area of effect is determined: if it's determined at the end of the spell, then the caster could easily adjust so that the pellet wouldn't be intercepted. If it's determined at the beginning of the spell, and only if, the readier stands a reasonable chance of intercepting the spell -- as long as he's correctly guessed the pellet's trajectory.

Daniel

1) Doesn't make too much sense for a bowman. They have to nock, draw, aim, and steady. That arrow has to be pointed at your friend for at least a second, unless we want to get into a bluff vs. sense motive fight. I imagine the average bowman's target is relatively obvious, after shooting archery myself. Maybe a check 10+archer BAB.

2) You bring up a good point. I think it would be easier to take an arrow for some one then a fireball. The wizard doesn't need to aim, just specify direction and range. The archer needs to look for a weak spot in armor. There was a discussion earlier about you can use spellcraft to determine spell choices like target of fireball. Sorry, I don't have a reference but the consensus was that spellcraft doesn't give that information.

I agree it is hard to run to correct place to set off the fireball. What if the interloper is ten feet from the caster and the fireball is comming in his general direction? Is there any difference?

The easiest answer is "I ready to disrupt the spellcaster"

 

[LokiDR]

I know this rant doesn't really belong on this forum, since its the Rules forum and not the DMing Style forum, but I just gotta say it.

I hate it when players think up a fun and exciting tactic in a game, only to have a DM put up all kinds of rules obstacles in his way. DMs should encourage this kind of imagination!

.......

Which game would you rather play in?

If the characters have a better chance to succeed by saying, "I attack the orc with my axe," than by saying, "I rush the orc, screaming my battle cry, but at the last minute I tuck my head under and just plow into him, bringing us both to the ground," then they will always pick the first option.

Make it easier to do cool stuff, not harder.

First, you are right, this comment doesn't belong here. This is a rules discussion, and if you are going to toss the rules, this is all void. The question here is "what do the rules say, or not say". If you want to rant, try General RPG Discussion.

That asside, here is my view. Some games are supposed to be more realistic than others. Jumping around madly in heavy armor when you don't have much dex to stop a high speed pellet is not very realistic.

If you don't want realistic, modify the rules all want. I would still say that this is something that should have the chance of failing. If you want a more "superhero" feel, just say "Ok, make me a reflex save, and hope that 'divine grace' paladins get kicks in." If you want something more realistic, go for game A. I a person succeeds at game A, you are damn impressed. Succeeding at game B means you are playing a superhero-ish game to be "cool". You pick.

 

[kreynolds]

kreynolds, does that mean that you'd be willing to let someone walk 30' to intercept an arrow coming from 10' away, as in my example above?

I doubt it. Depends on the circumstances.