Firefly: A latecomer wonders what Fox was smoking

BiggusGeekus said:
Incidentally, for more fun, watch the Firefly pilot next to the Star Trek: Next Generation one.

When we do this, we have to be very, very careful to take into account the passage of time.

If I recall my dates correctly, ST:TNG came out in 1987. Quantum Leap in 1989. The X Files and DS9 in 1993. The B5 series started 1994. Buffy in 1997.

Firefly only comes along in 2002, after 15 years of growth of the genre. And ST:TNG was the forefront of this wave. So, yes, we should expect Firefly to have a better pilot than TNG had. Firefly had the benefit of learning form TNG and the others. Ready made fanbase or not, TNG's success in a world that hadn't had much good sci-fi TV is pretty darned impressive.
 

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Ranger REG said:
Nathan? He was on a daytime soap opera, One Life to Live.

Many good stars got their starts on soap, from Demi Moore to Meg Ryan.
Alas, I knew him from OLTL. What can I say, I had a lot of time to hang out with my mom on summer vacations in the early 90s...

(takes a look at Fillion's IMDB profile) Oh crap, he was the "Wrong Pvt. Ryan" guy in Saving Private Ryan! That scene was messed up!
 


ShadowX said:
Just saw the pilot last night, and I can safely say that it is the best pilot I have ever seen.

Wash is pretty good, huh? I love the way he flips those three switches...

Oh, wait! You didn't mean Serenity's pilot... Whoops! :)

(BTW, I think one of the funniest scenes is one when Wash, Mal, and Zoe are in the cockpit, and Wash is "piloting" Serenity, but if you look closely, he has no steering stick- whatever you call it- in his hand! There apparently wasn't enough room to fit all of them into the scene, so he had to move away from the helm in order to be on camera with them, and he "mimed" piloting the ship. It's like the Stormtrooper hitting his head in ANH; if you don't know it's coming, you'll miss it, but once you've seen it, you can't help but see it all the time. Alan Tudyk mentions it on the commentary to "War Stories" and it's funny as heck. That is one heck of a pilot- flying by telekinesis!)
 

I'm 100% with TW. My wife and I just started watching the series a few weeks ago (via Netflix) and have been completely blown away. I had no expectations going in, even though I'm a big Angel/Buffy fan, primarily because the genre is usually cheesy. Aside from X-Files, I've never liked an SF television show. My wife HATES sci-fi. But here we are, jonesing for the next DVD and despairing that we only have three more episodes to go.

In any case, I find this all very depressing. The early loss of Angel was sad (Buffy was ready to go at seven seasons, IMO), but this is an f-ing tragedy. Hopefully the movie does well enough next year to completely humiliate the execs responsible for canning the show.

Question about television economics for those who know (or think they do): could a show be financed completely by DVD and VHS sales? I'm curious, because the consensus is that all of JW's shows do okay on television but absolutely kill on the DVD format. Couldn't he continue Firefly by creating new episodes for DVD? Or is that simply not possible, aside from any contractual obligations?
 

mafisto said:
Question about television economics for those who know (or think they do): could a show be financed completely by DVD and VHS sales?

Well, let's do the math...

Consider a DVD set of 15 episodes, akin to the Firefly set. List price $50. That's $3.33 per episode. Let's say that a whole $2 per episode of that goes back to the producers.

IIRC, Firefly took $2 million per episode to produce. You'd need to sell a million copies of the DVD in order to cover production costs. The DVD sets sell well, but this would be asking a lot.

Now, $2 per episode on the DVD going back to the producers is probably terribly naive, so that million sets is a bare minimum esitmate. You'd probably have to sell more than that.
 

mafisto said:
Question about television economics for those who know (or think they do): could a show be financed completely by DVD and VHS sales? I'm curious, because the consensus is that all of JW's shows do okay on television but absolutely kill on the DVD format. Couldn't he continue Firefly by creating new episodes for DVD? Or is that simply not possible, aside from any contractual obligations?
I'm not sure.

This is sort of how the model currently works: networks pay the studios to produce shows. The networks get their money from advertising. Advertisers buy advertising slots depending on the ratings the shows pull in: networks can demand more money from a higher rated show, since the ads will reach a larger audience, and thus advertisers will pay more, while low rated show won't draw as many advertisers, since the advertisers want to advertise to as many people as possible. Thus sci-fi often gets screwed on network tv, because it tends to get low ratings, and is expensive to produce (though computer-generated effects have brought some of the costs down). Also network execs have their favorite programs, and they tend to be more generous with though programs, while programs they don't like or don't understand tent to get the axe more quickly. This accounts for some of the success of Quantum Leap, for I've read that the NBC execs liked the show. Given that it generally took place in America of the 60's and 70's, and was light on the technobabble, it wasn't a show that didn't really confuse the hell out of them.

Now the thing is, how exactly are you going to pay for a show on DVD? Producing enough episodes to fill a DVD is going to cost money, you got to pay the actors, the writers, and the production staff, anmd there's production costs involved. Presumably, you got to depend on DVD sales to fund it. But if you got a new show no one's heard about, sale at first will be slow. If you've got a great show, it may spread by word of mouth, but just starting it out will be a fairly risky proposition. Small studios might not be able to afford the cost, and a larger studio is generally going to follow conventional wisdom and continue to produce for networks and cable, because they know the format works.

However, with the proliferation of VCRS, DVD players, video game consoles, and the Internet, television ratings have taken a massive nosedive. This is one reason the networks are falling over themselves to produce those loathesome "reality" shows. They're cheap, and they manage to pull decent ratings. However, ratings are becoming even harder to measure with stuff like Tivos. When people can simple record live tv, watch it whenever they want and skip commercials, it makes the old ratings system a little obsolete. I've read that some companies are considering going back to doing thing like they were done in the early days of television and plugging products on the show itself, since people aren't watching the commercials (though this wouldn't work very well with sci-fi or period shows). Perhaps someone might actually explore the idea of direct-to-DVD television as the system continues to break down. Who knows? With television, computers and telecommunications merging, who can say what things will be 20-30 years from now?
 
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Because it was cheaper than I expected it to be and my local video shop had never even heard of it, I did something I never, ever do last night, and bought a DVD.

And having liked a few sci-fi shows in the past (DS9, Farscape) I can honestly say, on the back of the pilot and 3 episodes so far, that this is the only one I have ever absolutely, freakin' loved.

It's great. I like everything about it, even the stuff I was expecting to not like (the western stuff).

I like it so much I'm almost wishing I wasn't playing DnD tonight, just so I could watch more.
 

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