Firing into melee

[AuraSeer]

When attacking with a ranged weapon, you take a -4 attack penalty when firing at a target in melee. What counts as being in melee? Does it just mean that your target is in a threatened square, or is it more complicated than that?

Two adjacent humans armed with longswords are clearly in melee, so the -4 applies to either of them. But what if they're 10' apart, and only one has a reach weapon?

What if two Large creatures are 10' apart?

What if a Diminutive housecat is attacking a Colossal dragon? Does the cat's owner still suffer the penalty if he fires at the dragon?

 

[Hypersmurf]

When attacking with a ranged weapon, you take a -4 attack penalty when firing at a target in melee. What counts as being in melee? Does it just mean that your target is in a threatened square, or is it more complicated than that?

Two adjacent humans armed with longswords are clearly in melee, so the -4 applies to either of them. But what if they're 10' apart, and only one has a reach weapon?

What if two Large creatures are 10' apart?

What if a Diminutive housecat is attacking a Colossal dragon? Does the cat's owner still suffer the penalty if he fires at the dragon?

From the SRD:
Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. Two characters are engaged in melee if they are enemies of each other and either threatens the other. (An unconscious or otherwise immobilized character is not considered engaged unless he is actually being attacked.)

If your target (or the part of your target you’re aiming at, if it’s a big target) is at least 10 feet away from the nearest friendly character, you can avoid the –4 penalty, even if the creature you’re aiming at is engaged in melee with a friendly character.

Precise Shot: If you have the Precise Shot feat you don’t take this penalty.

-Hyp.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Note that this means that, in a standard bar fight (i.e., people brawling unarmed without the Improved Unarmed Strike feat), you don't suffer the -4 penalty.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Note that this means that, in a standard bar fight (i.e., people brawling unarmed without the Improved Unarmed Strike feat), you don't suffer the -4 penalty.

It also means that nobody can use the Combat Expertise feat in a standard bar fight, since it can only be used in melee combat, and nobody in the fight is engaged in melee

-Hyp.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Until somone gets all uppity and breaks a bottle over something, anyway.

Darn rogue.

 

[AuraSeer]

Ah, it looks like I was working from an incomplete transcription of the SRD. It's missing everything after the first sentence.

Thanks!

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

House Cats..

What if a Diminutive housecat is attacking a Colossal dragon? Does the cat's owner still suffer the penalty if he fires at the dragon?

This is not covered in the RAW, however the RAW tends to assume opponents are Medium Humanoids. Technically a Wiz with a Stirge Familiar which attaches itself to the back of a Giant would suffer the penalty to hit... the hazards of using the absolute 10' clause.

Therefore, I house rule as follows
If the target is larger than Medium or the ally is smaller than Medium, the penalty drops by one point per size catagory difference.
If the target is smaller than Medium or the ally is larger than Medium, the penalty increases by one point per size catagory difference.
The modified penalty cannot grant a bonus to the attack {min of zero} and cannot exceed -8.

In your example, the Collosal Dragon enemy is 4 sizes larger than Medium, penalty decreases by 4 point. The Cat is 3 sizes smaller than Medium, penalty decreases by 3 points. The effective penalty is now 4 - 4 -3 = -3, which means no change to the attack against the Dragon.
If it was a Huge Dragon facing your Halfing buddy, the penalty would be 4 - 2 - 1 = 1
If you wanted to hit your Halfing buddy, perhaps with a ranged cure spell, the penalty would be 4 + 1 + 2 = 7

For completeness..., if one character is hiding behind the other, the intervening character can adjust the penalty up to thier Dex Mod in either direction, reflecting active body-guarding, by spending a Move action.. and must be aware of the pending attack.
If the attack misses due to this penalty, a second attack roll vs the covering creatures AC is used.
Precise Shot reduces this penalty by 6 points
It adds a bit of complexity, but IME not too much to worry about.


Anyway..

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Why would there be a penalty at all? The colossal dragon takes up a space that is much larger than that of the house cat so part(s) of the dragon will be more than 10 feet away, thus allowing someone to fire into melee without penalty. Or am I missing something?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Why would there be a penalty at all? The colossal dragon takes up a space that is much larger than that of the house cat so part(s) of the dragon will be more than 10 feet away, thus allowing someone to fire into melee without penalty. Or am I missing something?

No, you're not.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

10' Away...

You are in a 10' by 10' long hallway. Your cat familiar, Jesse, moves up to the end to peer inside. Suddenly a Collosal Dragon CLOMPS down in at the end of the hallway and smacks at Jesse.

You can't target any part of the Dragon that is at least 10' away from Jesse. Per the RAW, you would suffer the 4 point penalty for firing into melee over the cats head.

Hence, my HR.
Like I said, it doesn't come up that often, partially becuase the terrain rarely limits the options this much. But I like having a HR that my players are aware of in case the odd circumstances actually occur.

JMHO