First 4E Game: I enjoyed myself

[Celtavian]

Wait a minute! Celtavian likes 4th edition? Wasn't Celtavian an anti-4th edition poster two weeks ago, or a strong disliker?

What is happening? Are dogs and cats raining now? Gosh, I'm so out-dated, and out of news.

I hadn't actually played the game yet. I still don't like what they did to wizards, but you can still have fun playing them.

It becomes a matter of wrapping your head around the idea that minions are "real opponents" rather than 1 hit point ninnies that can be killed with scorching blast or thunderwave. And accepting that the wizard can do some interesting things in comparison to the other characters even though it isn't as interesting as previous editions.

On paper a minion looks pathetic. In action on the battlefield, they can be kind of a pain. Sure the wizard is still a great AoE minion killer, but he doesn't always take out every minion even though they have one hit point. They can cause some trouble once they get moving around on the battlefield with their non-minion allies.

We had some kobold minion surive five rounds because the wizard had some unlucky rolls and the minion didn't. He was tossing those javelins into people and causing problems.

The game is entirely different once you play it rather than simulate playing or theorize about playing. You start to see how a party works together and how the monsters have changed. And this gives you a better idea of your power level.

I found the wizard still packs a strong punch. Killing a ton of minions in one hit at will is very useful. Minions have one hit point, but most classes can still only kill one (or two at the most) a round without using an encounter or daily power. The wizard's ability to elminate minions makes them rather potent on the battlefield.

That ability that many minions have to increase their power in proximity to their allies is a tough ability. You get surrounded by a ton of minions and a few creatures that get hit boosts from their allies and that is trouble. I tell the wizard to drop his hit on my location in that case (that part is a little hokey, but I deal with it).

As far as theory and simulation versus actual play, I think most people that actually play 4th edition would find it an enjoyable game. I know I did.

 

[Celtavian]

I'd disagree that you don't need healing... without a leader type I think long battles would become much much more difficult.

My comments on needing less healing are speaking from the perspective of a high level DnD player. You don't need as much healing as DnD past say 10th level or so when you needed to lug around wands, potions, staves, and have your cleric blow healing spells to survive combat.

You need less healing than previous editions. Each class can heal themselves and their is a cap to the amount of healing a Leader class can provide. That cap is lower by a huge margin than it was in 3.5 where a cleric could blow every one of his considerable spells on healing.

So the healing requirements are by far lower in this edition than in previous editions. That is a positive for me.

Regarding getting tired of using the same abilities over and over... hopefully it didn't happen in 3E so it won't happen here. You'll get new encounter/dailies/utility powers as you level up (and more of them), and things like paragon path powers and/or multiclass options will also hopefully keep things fresh as you level. The idea of 30th level wizards killing arch-demons with their magic missle has an amusing aspect to me anyway.

With all the splatbooks and various powers, it would have been impossible to get tired of using the same abilities over and over. Each PrC or multiclassing made your character an entirely different animal.

Given the structure of 4E, I don't see how they can provide the same level of multiclass and PrC versatility. Paragon paths are great. Epic paths look like fun too. But they don't compare to PrCs in terms of unique flavor or unique abilities provided. That being said, they also don't have the disparity that 3.5 Prcs had in power. They had alot of useless Prcs and some Prcs that were so good why bother taking a different Prc.

I think they will maintain the standard structure for a Paragon path. I think that will keep them less abuseable than in previous editions, but at the same time water their abilities down a bit. I'll have to see what they come out with.

It could be that they will come out with epic paths and paragon paths that make people jump all over them and are far better than any other equivalent Paragon path. Splatbooks change so much of he game it's mere speculation on my part that they will follow the common paradigm for a paragon path.

 

[AtomicPope]

I just played my first actual rather than simulated 4E Game. A friend and myself did quite a few mock combats prior to the start up for the group because we wanted to get a feel for 4 E combat. That isn't the same as working in a group.

Truth

Pros:
4. Healing: Healing doesn't seem as necessary. It's nice to be able to get through a fight and feel like you can take the pain. No need to wait days for healing or until the cleric memorizes enough spells. Just use a few surges and you're ok again.

I want to agree but it takes a really good group to make this so. The games I've DMed the players have always been in need of healing. Healers are good to have around for when the dice gods forsake you

But it can be done.

And it's goofy fun to make your miniature talk in a funny voice and flick the monster you just killed over in the square and put your mini on top of it to roleplay your character dancing on the enemy's grave.

I love doing that. I dropped a PC into the negatives and had a hyena pee on her Minis are great for sparking the imagination and keeping the players focus. Also for lightening the mood

Cons:
1. Treasure: The treasure was a little light.

Totally agree. Since I'm new to 4e I don't want the game to Monty Haul so I'm stuck. My solution was to present treasure in trickles, then in bulk. For example, the PC's run into a bandit party and defeat the bandits. They get only a handful of gold because the bandits were out to rob people and didn't take any treasure with them. It's so low I don't even count it as a parcel. Inside the bandits' camp they'll find three or four parcels of treasure after a few good fights to get to the bandits' horde. It gives the illusion of treasure while creating a narrative to support it. This way I'm still using parcels, giving the PC's a reason to adventure (rather than just look for wandering monsters), and playing within the intended design frame (somewhat)

 

[Celtavian]

I want to agree but it takes a really good group to make this so. The games I've DMed the players have always been in need of healing. Healers are good to have around for when the dice gods forsake you

No doubt healers are still helpful. It's just very nice to be able to get a party back in action without the cleric having to pull out his wand or spend a few rounds healing. Everyone just catches their breath, stretches, and moves on.

I gotta give the designers big props on the new healing paradigm.

I love doing that. I dropped a PC into the negatives and had a hyena pee on her Minis are great for sparking the imagination and keeping the players focus. Also for lightening the mood

Haha.

Totally agree. Since I'm new to 4e I don't want the game to Monty Haul so I'm stuck. My solution was to present treasure in trickles, then in bulk. For example, the PC's run into a bandit party and defeat the bandits. They get only a handful of gold because the bandits were out to rob people and didn't take any treasure with them. It's so low I don't even count it as a parcel. Inside the bandits' camp they'll find three or four parcels of treasure after a few good fights to get to the bandits' horde. It gives the illusion of treasure while creating a narrative to support it. This way I'm still using parcels, giving the PC's a reason to adventure (rather than just look for wandering monsters), and playing within the intended design frame (somewhat)

Yeah. I gotta remember I'm only first level and treasure should improve. I don't want to mess too much with the system right now because it's so new I don't want to break it.

We played 3rd edition quite a while before we started messing with it.

I am getting the feeling that Blade Cascade is going to need to be messed with though. I'm thinking of a couple of ways to mess with it such as maximim level number of attacks and you cannot move in between when you start or you break rhythm of your cascade.