First Look at the Complete Divine

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

where is the SKR post from?

On his website. Here's the link to his thread: http://p082.ezboard.com/fseankreynoldsboardsfrm1.showMessage?topicID=1793.topic

 

[Al'Kelhar]

Chapter 2: Prestige Classes
I think they've all been covered elsewhere. The only one that struck me as being a possible problem is the Radiant Servant of Pelor, which looks unchanged from its Dragon version.

Chapter 3: Supplemental Rules
Feat, feats, and more feats. Two "new" types of feats: divine and wild. Divine feats let you spend a turn attempt to do something else (there are 10 of them plus True Believer), wild feats are the same except you spend a wild shape use for a physical improvement for a short period of time. In general, some of the feats look very nice (Augment Healing: +2 to healing spells/level, Spontaneous Healer: allows non-clerics to swap out spells for healing spells--this could break the Druid). There are also variant rules for faith points and feats you can use faith points (sort of like action points from UA). Epic rules are included as well at the end.

Having purchased my copy of the Complete Divine only a few days ago and not having much time to read into it, a few things did strike me as unbalanced.

The Radiant Soul of Pelor - A cleric can qualify for it by 5th level, gains +1 divine spellcasting level per level as well as seriouly enhanced turning and healing. The down-side? Hit Die reduced from d8 to d6. Unbalanced class. My suggestion - drop the "+1 level of divine spellcasting class" from 1st level, and put Hit Die back up to d8. The caster's healing spells are just as powerful, because of the +1 caster level as the Healing domain granted power, but his narrow focus on healing and turning means he's lost a smidgin of his other spell power.

Quicken Turning - Can turn undead as a free action, although cannot turn more than once per round. No pre-reqs (apart from the ability to turn undead, duh), no down-side, allows the cleric two serious combat actions per round (turn undead and spell casting). My suggestion - remove the restriction on two turn attempts in a single round, but make a single quickened turn cost three of the cleric's turn attempts for the day.

Augment Healing is to clerics as weapon focus is to fighters - "the feat every cleric has to have".

Then there's the feat which grants a multi-classed spellcaster a +4 caster level bonus (although caster level cannot exceed character's HD)! So the multi-classed spellcaster now has the same caster level as the primary spellcasters in the party. Yeah, right.

Complete Divine is another in the long line of D&D "power up" books, that every player needs to have because if they don't they're falling behind wedding-tackle-wise. I should have bought Fiend Folio (which is what I originally intended to purchase when I walked into my FLGS).

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[Kwyn]

The Radiant Soul of Pelor - A cleric can qualify for it by 5th level

One of the prereqs is Knowledge: Religion 9

So, you would have to be 6th level (presumably cleric) prior to taking a level of RSoP.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

One of the prereqs is Knowledge: Religion 9

So, you would have to be 6th level (presumably cleric) prior to taking a level of RSoP.

Sorry, my mistake, I'm going by memory here.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[beaver1024]

I shudder to ask this but is Miasma back and if so, how has it changed?

 

[shilsen]

Then there's the feat which grants a multi-classed spellcaster a +4 caster level bonus (although caster level cannot exceed character's HD)! So the multi-classed spellcaster now has the same caster level as the primary spellcasters in the party. Yeah, right.

That feat only raises caster level, right? If earlier responses on this thread are correct, it does not actually raise the character's level where spells per day is concerned. So a Ftr4/Clr5 with the feat would have a caster level of 9 but would have the same spells per day as a Ftr4/Clr5 without the feat. IMO, that makes it a strong feat, but not an overpowered one.

 

[Pants]

Damn, I was looking forward to this book, but after all of this, my interest is beginning to die down quite a bit.

 

[Olive]

Damn, I was looking forward to this book, but after all of this, my interest is beginning to die down quite a bit.

Remember that everyone who actually has the book bar one says that they like it better than CW, a book that most people liked better than the previous splats.

If it's like CW or better it'll be worth picking up. One PrC and a couple of feats that are overpowered don't ruin the other 20 PrCs and 25 feats (or whatever the totals are) that are in the book. Neither do they ruin the relics rules, advice on including religion in your games or whatever else is in there.

 

[Pants]

Remember that everyone who actually has the book bar one says that they like it better than CW, a book that most people liked better than the previous splats.

If it's like CW or better it'll be worth picking up. One PrC and a couple of feats that are overpowered don't ruin the other 20 PrCs and 25 feats (or whatever the totals are) that are in the book. Neither do they ruin the relics rules, advice on including religion in your games or whatever else is in there.

Well, I guess the praise can certainly get drowned out in the criticism of a spell, and a couple of feats.

That said, I'll most likely leaf through it first.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Remember that everyone who actually has the book bar one says that they like it better than CW, a book that most people liked better than the previous splats.

If it's like CW or better it'll be worth picking up. One PrC and a couple of feats that are overpowered don't ruin the other 20 PrCs and 25 feats (or whatever the totals are) that are in the book. Neither do they ruin the relics rules, advice on including religion in your games or whatever else is in there.

The problem is this:

If you can pick up a book, and know that nothing in there needs particular attention paid to it for the entire book to be useable, then it's value is far, far greater than a book where everything needs to be vetted by the DM.

CW looked fine at first. Indeed almost all of the book is useable as-is, with only a couple of points that the DM needs to take note of, and those points are quite obscure, requiring the addition of other questionable material to bring true monstrosities into play. The combinations will be sufficiently unusual that most DMs would take a single look at the character and immediately ask the player "so what's the trick?".

CD is looking like it has, out of the gate, some true monstrosities, even just keeping to core + CD. I can only hope that there are not far worse things lurking out of sight that will be discovered later. Furthermore, these aren't things that an entire character needs to be built around - they're little things which added to a character become untenable.

And there's the problem. I can't just say "Core plus splatbooks are legal" any more. I have to vet each and every feat, each and every spell, each and every prestige class etc once again. Because the guy writing the book, who's supposed to have done all that for me, didn't.