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D&D (2024) First playtest thread! One D&D Character Origins.

HammerMan

Legend
You realize that in the fantasy world, there don't have to be genes for there to be genetics? So "genetics" are always going to be a poor overall answer.
I LOVE aSoIaF. But one of the things that bugs me to no end is how in a book full of people that did not get there looks from either parent… somehow taking after 1 parent is proof of infidelity.

I’m fine with genetics 🧬 not being a big part of fantasy, but the basic idea of how breeding works should be considered. (Like someone domesticated horses and dogs IN your world so I think it fair to say people can assume that trait breeding works most but not all times.
 

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Cadence

Legend
Supporter
Yeah he keeps jumping around to whatever context best suits him. I don't know if he means real world humans and gorillas, or game-world humans and gorillas...except that gorillas aren't a playable race. Sooo.....
I'm pretty sure I don't want to get involved with the 5e gorilla stats (16 Str? 6 Int?).

In previous editions he could have gone for Goliath or Half-Ogre vs. Halfling. With the hard cap on ability scores being the same for all races and the ASIs at a bunch of level gains, that ship sailed a decade ago.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I haven't used feats in 5e yet. Do any of the feat changes impact what might be done with the classes in upcoming UAs? Will adding levels to feats greatly change how they are used in play?
I think adding levels to Feats is going to make a huge difference to how they’re used. In my experience, people use Feats in one of a few ways: Most typically they either they take variant human or custom lineage because there’s a Feat they really want to have at 1st level, or they don’t take any Feats until after they’ve boosted their primary ability to 20th, though in the latter case they might make an exception for a Feat that grants +1 to their primary ability score if it’s odd, always at 4th level. Occasionally a player who takes variant human or custom lineage will take Polearm Master at 1st level and Sentinel at 4th or vice-versa. Very occasionally, a player will take a Feat at 4th level if it’s central to their build and a non-human, non-custom lineage is central to their concept. And then you get the rare player who takes Feats at every ASI level because they think ASIs are boring. With the exception of the last player, nobody takes Feats that don’t grant direct combat benefits.

With leveled Feats, I think that’s going to change. Since JC said 1st level Feats aren’t going to grant ability score increases, and it looks like most of them aren’t big combat boosts, I think you’ll see a lot more variety in those Feats. Beyond that? It’ll be hard to predict how players will use them before we see what kinds of Feats are at what levels.
 
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Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Well, they're proposed to be background ASIs instead of racial one's, and WotC is seeking comments on everything, right?

I'm going to comment that I wish they just let the ASIs float and folks could justify it however they want.
Personally, if they did this I would rather it just be built into the rules for generating ability scores instead of bonuses to the scores after you’ve generated them.
 

SakanaSensei

Adventurer
No, this is what happens. People who won't play anything without an 18 certainly won't pass up on this chance. But its hard to defend floating ASI with "I can optimize more". Only 1, maybe 2 posters in all the ASI discussions I have seen were honest enough and said they like floating ASI because they can optimize.
All others tried to argue that it "allows them to play different race/class combinations" which makes no sense as even with fixed ASI you can play all race/class combinations you want if you do without the 18.
Calling everyone who doesn’t parrot your talking point a liar sure is a way to engage in a conversation.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
Thats frankly nonsense.

Why are elves and halflings better archers or throwers? Not because of background but because of their biology simply allowing better hand-eye coordination. Same way as for example Tau in Wh40K. Yes they might not know how to use a bow just because they are born (aka, playing a class with no bow proficiency), but their hand-eye coordination stays. The same way a chimps or gorillas muscle density is way higher than a humans so a small chimp could rival a grown man. You are talking about different races, of course there would be biological differences.

It doesn't matter that your elven slave performed hard labour his entire life. The dexterity is in his genes, the same way as having two eyes and two arms. It doesn't have to develop. What your elf develops is a lot of strength, represented by putting a high score into strength. That is what training represents. But ASI you get just for existing.
Elves are better archers because of tradition. Halflings are not better throwers in 5e or in... what are we calling the next edition now? D&DO? One? because slings are a simple weapon just about anyone can use, and they didn't give halflings any bonuses to use them.

And honestly, "in their genes" isn't that good an excuse. Humans are better endurance runners than basically every other animal out there. We can outrun cheetahs in a race, simply because we can run for longer than they can. That's in our genes. But most people don't train to run and therefore are simply not good at it, and average Joe would fall over panting fairly quickly. How far can you run? I can manage a fast shuffle for a couple of seconds until I remember there's a reason I own a cane.

The same would happen with elves. An elf who really wants to train at being graceful will be very good, and that would be represented by them putting their highest stat in Dex, making an "Acrobat" or "Dancer" background, and taking some Dex-based skills to support that. But average elf is probably not going to do that. Average elf is going to be doing whatever elves do all day, like frolicking in the woods, or painting murals.

Elsewhere, you write:

1. People somehow thinking that different fictional races being different is somehow racist (see @Faolyn's post). Which strangely only seems to be a problem in fantasy, not in scifi. I haven't heard any complains about Vulcans.
That's because SF tries to be at least a little bit realistic. There's in-setting reasons for Vulcans being strong: their planet is higher gravity, and they supposedly have much denser muscles than humans, and I'm pretty sure that they have a better pulmonary system, all of which are used to explain their high strength. Likewise, in real life, chimps literally have different types of muscles (more fast-twitch muscle fibers) than humans do which enhances their strength (but makes them tire out more easily).

In fantasy, you don't get that. You get maaagic. You get literary tradition determining what races are like, but literary tradition changes from time to time and so do interpretations of D&D races. Which is why, for instance, halflings used to get bonuses to saves against magic and half-orcs were built to be assassins, not barbarians. It's also why you can handwave things like a loxodon--a literally 8-foot-tall elephant-person--being no stronger than an elf (neither get Strength bonuses in 5e), or a 4'5" dwarf being as strong as a 7-foot goliath (both get a +2 Strength).
 


Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
I LOVE aSoIaF. But one of the things that bugs me to no end is how in a book full of people that did not get there looks from either parent… somehow taking after 1 parent is proof of infidelity.

I’m fine with genetics 🧬 not being a big part of fantasy, but the basic idea of how breeding works should be considered. (Like someone domesticated horses and dogs IN your world so I think it fair to say people can assume that trait breeding works most but not all times.
Yeah. "Genetics" isn't part of fantasy but "Breeding" and "Bloodline" 100% is.

(goes to podium)

That's why we at the HRAS request the reinstatement of the half elf and half orc to the PHB and the inclusion of the half dwarlf. And not by it's slave name, the mul, but as name that calls to its proud dwarven blood. Keep Half Races!
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
No, this is what happens. People who won't play anything without an 18 certainly won't pass up on this chance. But its hard to defend floating ASI with "I can optimize more". Only 1, maybe 2 posters in all the ASI discussions I have seen were honest enough and said they like floating ASI because they can optimize.
All others tried to argue that it "allows them to play different race/class combinations" which makes no sense as even with fixed ASI you can play all race/class combinations you want if you do without the 18.
Because no matter what you want to believe, it's not about the optimization. It's about the characterization. How about instead of assuming that everyone is lying, you maybe reevaluate your beliefs on the subject.

My table rolls for stats, and my character for an upcoming game rolled well. But I'm playing a plasmoid alchemist artificer--generally considered the weakest of the artificer subclasses--and for my free feat, I took Chef instead of something like Elemental Adept, which would enhance my acidic spewings. And I didn't even put my other high score in Constitution, which is an important stat for artificers. It's in Charisma, because I'm a sales-ooze.

So yeah, tell me I'm optimizing here.
 

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