Fixed Level Gaming

[kitsune9]

I don't think levels are necessary, but advancements in some form are.

Items can satisfy this, but the goal is probably not just to get a higher plus - you will want new options that you can combine with older ones, or that improves what an older one did. A Boot of Speed turns into a Boot of Teleporation, a Flaming Longsword can also be used to shoot Fireballs, stuff like that. (A Longsword turning from +2 to +3 is also an improvement, but it doesn't add a new option. You just hit better.)

Levels (especially levels and classes) manage to achieve that. You don't just get a +1 to hit, you also learn a new trick that fits to the ones you already know, either in theme or in effect.
(Flaming Longsword: If it gets the ability to shoot fireballs at individual targets, it fits thematically - it is still all about fire. If you get the ability to make to blindingly fast attacks with it, there is no thematic link, but the effect is similar to the single attacks you already do.)

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I suppose (unique, character specific) powers should be around 4-8. Some people will still "need" more. But you might also want a few options that are available for everyone. (Stuff like Action Points, Rerolls, Grappe/Bullrush/Trip or what-you-have.)

I agree, there has to be some form of advancement in a campaign setting.

 

[dm4hire]

I'm very familiar with point buy systems and such. I think what I'm really looking at is would people play a game that there was literally no adjustments beyond original creation. Their only reward would be via treasure found. Or perhaps if there was advancement it was only in functionality of what they had chosen so that a PC focused on fire only got better in fire, but not power level wise only in how he used it. Is that making sense?

 

[Umbran]

I'm very familiar with point buy systems and such. I think what I'm really looking at is would people play a game that there was literally no adjustments beyond original creation. Their only reward would be via treasure found.

As a one-shot, or handfull of sessions as a mini-campaign, sure. For a long-term campaign, it'd be a harder sell. For most of the players I know, you'd need some phenomenal plot/storyline to stick with one character with no advancement over the long haul, and that's not something the game itself is going to give you

Or perhaps if there was advancement it was only in functionality of what they had chosen so that a PC focused on fire only got better in fire, but not power level wise only in how he used it. Is that making sense?

Changes in how you use it amount to flexiblity. And flexibility is a form of power.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I think what I'm really looking at is would people play a game that there was literally no adjustments beyond original creation. Their only reward would be via treasure found. Or perhaps if there was advancement it was only in functionality of what they had chosen so that a PC focused on fire only got better in fire, but not power level wise only in how he used it. Is that making sense?

Totally. With the former (no advancement whatsoever) I think my Suspenders of Disbelief would pretty much snap - not good! And for the latter. . . same again, I suppose. But then, I've never come across either type of game, so who knows, really. I'm just not keen, in theory.

 

[The Green Adam]

Still not sure what bearing this has on M&M...

Some form of advancement is necessary though the rate of advancement matters less for me and most of my friends/fellow gamers. That is to say, we like to know that the more we do things the better we get at doing it but we don't really worry about it very much.

Case in point (and the reason the OP's first post confuses me), our current Mutants & Masterminds campaign is in its 6th session. We started all the characters at 10th level (150 power points) and now most are 2nd Level going on 3rd. So what is this Fixed Level business in M&M? The more power points you have the higher your Power Level. You most assuredly advance and improve. Of course, I forgot to give points for the last two games and no one is too upset

I tend to play alot of games with no levels - Star Trek (LUG/FASA), Star Wars (WEG D6), Classic Traveller (improved XP/Skill houserules) and Mekton II/Z just to name a few. I don't really like Level based games all that must (D&D included but M&M excluded - it rocks!). I give out skill points/XPs or the like and the player's raise their skills or save them up to raise an ability score or whathaveyou. It is still a game and the element of gaining XP and improving your character is probably the only element that still qualifies RPGs as games.

AD
Barking Alien

 

[Fenes]

I don't need advancement to enjoy a game. I'd not say I want to stay at level 1, but I am happy playing a character I like without advancing in power - the history. the adventures done are enough for m.

In my campaign, we advance a level per year or so, though treasure is acquired more often.

 

[Agamon]

I don't like the L1-20 advancment in SWSE, it doesn't really fit the genre, IMO. So in my Star Wars game, it'll be like a modified E6 game, starting at L6 and going to L12 with only feats and abilities being added after that. I'll also be slowing advancement to a crawl, too. We'll see how it turns out.

To answer the question, though, no, I've never run a no advancement game. I do think the players wouldn't enjoy it as much. I think it takes a lot out the game part if the game. Players do like anticipating the new shiny just over the hill, I find.

 

[Kristian Serrano]

Leveling and Advancement is only important in a game system that requires it or in a game that dangles that carrot before you. D&D imposes a restriction to really cool character abilities based on how many make-believe points you earn. It taunts you by showing you what's possible, but not immediately accessbile.

Imagine a game in which you had enough powers and abilities to be satisfied but there was no further "leveling." Instead you advance in the game by roleplaying and wealth. You acquire political power and influence, land, treasure, and fame, or you simply feel good that you are saving the world. Comic book superheroes, for example, seldom "level" or advance in their powers, although it's not unheard of.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

I'm very familiar with point buy systems and such. I think what I'm really looking at is would people play a game that there was literally no adjustments beyond original creation. Their only reward would be via treasure found. Or perhaps if there was advancement it was only in functionality of what they had chosen so that a PC focused on fire only got better in fire, but not power level wise only in how he used it. Is that making sense?

I think that some few people would enjoy such a campaign (its possible that they might be enjoying it despite the limited opportunities for advancement, rather than because of it). I would not. Increasing personal power is a large part of the fun of the game for me.

 

[Woas]

Sure. After playing in a game where there is no advancement after character creation, I must say I actually enjoy it more. This is how the Traveller RPG works. Basically when you go through character generation, you make a character who has skills one would expect from a competent adult who's had years of training in their respective fields of knowledge/work.
There aren't any classes or levels in Traveller, so putting it in the kind of language to compare with games that do, making a Traveller character would be like making a mid to high level D&D character who's already been around the block of dungeons and lost temples and has some magic items and such under their belt...

Anyway, Traveller has no experience points or character advancement other than getting more money and buying new gear for yourself (and maybe your spaceship too). Honestly the gang I game with an myself have found this very liberating an actually has been more fun for us than the constant carrot & stick game of levels and XP. The gang feels like they are really liberated from having to follow an adventure to get bonus XP award from roleplaying or finding the extra side quests, just for that next ability.

But as always, YMMV or whatever the kids say these days.