Fixing negative HP at high levels: feedback?

[schnee]

It's odd that characters are so darn hard to kill at lower levels (their negative HP are either close to or 2.5 times greater than their real HP, facing attacks doing d4-d8 damage) but incredibly fragile at higher ones (negative HP a fraction of their real HP, fighting monsters doing 2-4x that value in one swipe). At low levels, it's unlikely someone can be taken from 'conscious' to 'below -10' in one hit. At higher levels, it's almost a given.

In other words, low level is 'alive alive dying dying dying dying dying dying dead'
and high level is 'alive alive alive alive dead.' Seems to be the opposite of how fantasy heros operate; so many times they're gravely wounded, but never actually die.

So, I've added a few house rules to my campaign that I think will fix this: first, characters get their Con HP bonsus to their negative HP; second, they gain 1 extra negative HP every level.

Now, before you think I'm going easy on them, I have a third rule. If they receive a blow that sends them to negative HP I won't tell them how much damage it did; they'll just know they're unconscious and dying. Only Death Watch or the like will let them know mechanically what's going on.

It should make them a lot harder to kill, but I'm a lot more confident I can use nasty tactics and drop 'em in combats much more freely without killing them. Then, if someone does get taken out, they have no idea how long they have; in a big combat that will definitely increase the drama of the situation.

Any feedback? Anyone else tried rules like this before? TIA.

 

[Crothian]

Are you going to be doing this with the badguys as well or just the PCs?

 

[Nifft]

I grant my PCs (and NPCs, and everyone else) a Death Threshold of -(10 + HD). The PCs are currently at 11th level, and it's working out quite well -- just last session, their Ranger11 got knocked down to -20 in one round by a Dragon. Very luckily, he didn't die.

I suspect it'll get to be less of a buffer at high levels, since power seems to increase exponentially while this progression is strictly linear, but it's working very nicely so far -- they still fear death, but it's not nearly so arbitrary.

Also, my bad guys tend to occasionally live, which makes me happy (not needing to stat out new ones and all that).

-- N

 

[evilbob]

I currently use death occurs at -Con (or -10, whichever is lower - also, ability damage doesn't count toward this), since it seems like tougher characters should survive longer, but I also like the -10 - level idea. That's a lot easier, it scales better with levels (since most people don't increase Con), and it also gives the players about the same chance as the monsters - who are generally favored in the -Con rule. And yes, I use the same rule on the enemies, which has actually worked pretty well since I have a couple "good" themed characters who try to save everyone (that isn't evil) from dying - and that helps them achieve this goal, too.

A better system might be -10 - level - Con bonus (and negative con bonuses would actually raise this number), which generally takes everything into account - but it is also complex and gives them a much farther way to go than just -10.

I do like the additional "don't tell them how far under 0" idea, too.

Edit: Ok, so I just re-read your first post and realized that the idea I just proposed was exactly your idea. So I think what I'm saying here is that I like your idea.

 

[schnee]

Are you going to be doing this with the badguys as well or just the PCs?

Good point. I'd say everyone that can go to negatives (i.e. not constructs or undead). Makes slaying a dragon a bit more of a challenge, eh?

 

[Nifft]

Makes slaying a dragon a bit more of a challenge, eh?

My PCs slew a dragon last session. They reduced it to negative HP at a height of 300 ft., so the fall finished it off. Poor little dragon...

-- N

 

[JimAde]

My PCs slew a dragon last session. They reduced it to negative HP at a height of 300 ft., so the fall finished it off. Poor little dragon...

-- N

Dragons are an endangered species. Get the EPA after them

Schnee, I think this is a great idea. I've been using the -CON rule myself, but I think I'll switch. Thanks.

 

[scholz]

I think this is a pretty good idea.
I think another idea (either as an alternative or added to your idea) would be to convert a round of dying, to dying/disabled. So if my 5th level character is reduced to -3hps by an attack, she could still make a standard action (risking taking a point of additional damage) or a move action, without that danger. That way people could move to the healers, escape a combat, or even try healing themselves (assuming they have the spell or potion).

I think people might balk to adding both a round of dying and a round of disability, but I like it. I personally like the idea of people being disabled for brief periods. (I would probably make the damage concurrent with the spell casting, so a concentration check would be necessary).

I will admit I don't like killing PCs, especially higher level ones that people have a big investment in. But this would keeplower level people vulnerable, but give the higher level a chance to be heroic (fighting til the end).

 

[Grayhawk]

If they receive a blow that sends them to negative HP I won't tell them how much damage it did; they'll just know they're unconscious and dying. Only Death Watch or the like will let them know mechanically what's going on.

I can see why you're doing this, but I wouldn't use such a rule for the following reasons:

Once the characters have been into the negatives on several occasions wihtout any of them dying, they might start feeling that you're fudging the damage to keep them alive.

Once you actually kill someone who didn't know how hurt he was, he might be upset that you didn't fudge the damage - just this once - as he would have had no way of telling whether you did so or not.

IMC I use the 'death at negative con' variant.

(Best experience with this so far, was the last encounter of Sunless Citadel, when the Con 18 Dwarf Fighter was brought to -17 by a crit. With no one conscious within reach, he had a 10% chance of surviving by stabilizing. He made it!

Not that this couldn't have happened with any other system, but it was certainly intense in a way that you just can't plan for - without killing of a lot of PC's, that is )

 

[el-remmen]

In my game, death occurs at negative 10 + one-half your max. hps - bu it takes 1d10+10 rounds to perform first aid on someone to stabilize them - and natural stabilzation only has a 5% chance.

If you get to your death total before someone is done stabilizing you, you hover there until the healer is done - if they fail their check you die.

Any blow while you are at negative hit points requires a FORT save vs 10 + damage done or you die.