D&D 5E Fixing the terrible Weapon Master feat

[Eis]

Phassah! That's nothing! You're barely over 100 posts a month and I am nearly 150 a month so far! I'm going to totally eclipse you in about 8 years or so LOL!

usually by the time I read a thread that I have a reply for someone has already beaten me to it.....probably you!

 

[Maxperson]

This is evolving into a discussion of depth versus breadth.

And in general, in any RPG it is much better to be a master of at least one thing than to be OK at a lot of things. One reason for this is that you are part of a team, and if you are just OK at a lot of things, you'll typically always find that someone other than your character should be taking the lead role. Another reason for this is that it is usually much more costly to get good at many things than it is to get really good at one thing, and as such a big hammer that can treat every problem as a nail is typically better than a partial tool chest of specialized tools that are only usable in some cases and cost as much as the big hammer without solving any problem well.

However, in my experience "power gaming" that is strictly depth only is something that is actually going on unwitting cooperation with a GM, because the GM is pretty forward a series of nails to hit and wondering why the players only develop hammers. A lot of power gaming can be mitigated by good encounter design and good campaign design that gives the power gamer a reason to want breadth because he sees how mitigating his character's weaknesses is every bit as important to survival as developing his character's strength. A good GM tends to hit you just as much with the question, "If this character is going to die, how is that going to happen?" or "If this character is going to feel unheroic, when will that happen?", as questions like, "If this character is in a damage race, how will you assure he wins?"

This feat is a 'breadth feat'. It gives options at a low opportunity cost to classes which don't have a lot of weapon options. For them, it's equivalent to +1 to an ability score AND +1 to damage dealt.

The issue is primarily in the name. Gaining basic use of 4 weapons doesn't accomplish what the feat claims to do by calling itself Weapon Master. If it was simply called Weapon Proficiency, it would be a better feat and have fewer complaints. Still not the best feat, but at least it would accomplish what it is advertising.

 

[Iry]

I believe our solution was Martial Weapon Proficiency (All) + 1 Fighting Style​. No partial stat bonus.

 

[MonkeezOnFire]

I'm not a big fan of the solutions that add flat bonuses to hit or damage given the overall flat math of the edition. A suitable compromise might be to leave the feat as it be but also give one of the weapon based fighting styles: Dueling, Two-Weapon Fighting, Great Weapon Fighting or Archery. These seem to represent sufficient training to be able to utilize certain weapons to a higher degree which certainly fits with the flavour of being a master of the chosen weapon.

 

[Pauln6]

Hmm I'm divided on this one. I don't favour bonuses to attack rolls, although a bonus to damage I'd be relaxed about. I like the idea of an additional attack once per long or short rest. I could get on board with an extra fighting style but I think we're getting into territory where it's too good for a stat boost as well. Maybe if you're already trained martial weapon group you get a stat boost?

 

[phantomK9]

One quite powerful version of this I've seen is from the Dawnforged cast. If memory serves me you get to pick four weapons (Longswords, daggers, mauls, ect) and you can add your proficiency bonus to the damage you do with those weapons

I've always been of the opinion since 5e came out that if a feat provides some kind of numerical bonus, then that bonus should be tied to your character's Proficiency bonus. To that end I've change several of the feats to do this.

Weapon Master is one where I plan to do this as well and give + Prof bonus to damage. But I would keep to only one weapon (or possibly two related weapons).

 

[Chaosmancer]

I've always been of the opinion since 5e came out that if a feat provides some kind of numerical bonus, then that bonus should be tied to your character's Proficiency bonus. To that end I've change several of the feats to do this.

Weapon Master is one where I plan to do this as well and give + Prof bonus to damage. But I would keep to only one weapon (or possibly two related weapons).

I, personally, haven't found 4 weapons to be too much, since usually my players only use one or two weapons ever.

The Barbarian I took this on never used anything other than a longsword and javelins, I honestly never remembered what the other two were that I had picked. (Think one was Battleaxes, since he'd had some contact with a Dwarven Clan).

Not sure if this changes your decision, just pointed out that in terms of power, it was effectively the same with the way our tables tend to use weapons.

 

[bedir than]

Why would a barbarian take this when they are proficient in every weapon?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Why would a barbarian take this when they are proficient in every weapon?

I took the homebrew version I was talking about earlier in the thread, from Dawnforged Cast.

That version allows you to pick 4 weapons and gain your Prof bonus as damage when wielding them.

I was playing a Knight background, Ancestral Barbarian, with Shield Master and a Longsword. I was massively defensive, but I wanted to keep my damage up, so it was an awesome fit.

 

[ClaytonCross]

I like the ability to give any character weapon proficiencies of my choice. Changing it would cause my table to lose that ability with no replacement. Your suggested ability is just another "+ damage" ability which I find to be less interesting and less unique than the only feat that provides weapon proficiencies. If you want your "I want to do more damage … because" feat. You do just do something like "Reaper: character never misses and always does enough damage to kill enemies with one hit unless they are bosses." … because that's would end the relentless attempts to power creep damage and do nothing interesting with the feat.

I am not trying to be a jerk. I am just trying to make a point that being better at attacking and doing damage is not a "feat" of heroism and increasing those is not unique or interesting. Its just power creep and trivializing combat so you can kill things more than others kill things. Which is what you get from basic leveling in any class. If your trying to replace feat it needs to be something more than damage/to hit creep. Make it do something truly unique that makes the character stand out in a feat of skill others can't do.

Example: Weapon Master... Choose one melee weapon without the two-handed property, while wielding only weapon(s) of that type (shortsword, longsword, hand axe, etc) and not wearing a shield, you may use your attack to manipulate lines of approach while maintaining your defense. Each time you make an attack against a target in 5ft, you may move to a another position within 5ft of that target without triggering attacks of opportunity from other enemies. The distance you can move can not exceed your speed.

So imagine a Ranger with two short swords or a fighter with a longsword and every time they attack the strike the opponent, parry the blade, and swivel in to a new position manipulating into or out of a group of enemies in order to escape being cornered or attack a target hiding behind guards. No additional damage or to hit but really useful and unique to all feats. Its use full and kind of an epic visual of a lone warrior manipulating his position through a crowd of multiple attacker who just can't seem to pin him down or hold him back... Kind of a master of his weapons...