Fixing the weretouched master

[c-1150]

Isn't a bear naturally more powerful than a rat anyway? Where's the problem?

And in a similar vein, is it really too different from the Dragon Disciple PrC? The red and the gold are the kings and the others are weaker... I don't know if it to the same extent as the bear/rat levels but the black and white are significantly weaker than the red...

c-1150

 

[Eltern]

Now I don't have Eberron yet, nor have I seen this prestige class, but it would seem sorta obvious to me to make the werebear (and the weretiger?) a 10 level class, and have the wererat only require 5 or maybe less levels. So if you wanna be all wererated out you only need to dump five levels in it, but to be very werebeared you need the whole 10 yards.

Granted, this would require more significant rewriting on our part, and doesn't fit the trend of how pclasses with this sort of option tend to work, but I think that it makes the most sense, personally.

 

[Davelozzi]

Now I don't have Eberron yet, nor have I seen this prestige class, but it would seem sorta obvious to me to make the werebear (and the weretiger?) a 10 level class, and have the wererat only require 5 or maybe less levels. So if you wanna be all wererated out you only need to dump five levels in it, but to be very werebeared you need the whole 10 yards.

That would work well in a Weretouched supplement, but in the main campaign book, there's just not room to have a separate prestige class for every kind of werecreature without cutting substantially into other, more immediately useful areas.

 

[Navar]

Isn't a bear naturally more powerful than a rat anyway? Where's the problem?

It is a ballance issue. As a DM one wants to make everything as ballanced as possible. It would be like making a class that said "choose A and get +2 Str, choose B and Get +8 str, or choose C and get +16 str. With no other substantional reason to choose one over another you are essentially penalizing a player for picking A or B over C. More than that you are penalizing the entire party. If you are the Fighter then you want to be the best fighter you can be for you own good, and for the general wellbeing of the party, but you also want to roleplay well. Same is said about any class. This choice won't make a huge differance 2-3 times per day you get +8 str for 7-8 rounds, but it may make the differance when trying to overcome an obsticle. If you are going to put forth options you want to ensure that each option is equally good so those that want to role play a Rat Master Shifter will be ballanced with those who want to role play a Tiger Master Shifter.

 

[~Johnny~]

Bear & Tiger have shifts of normal duration

Wolverine and Wolf have shifts that last in minutes (or 10's of minutes?) instead of rounds

Boar and Rat have shifts that last in 10's of minutes (or hours?) instead of rounds.

I think this is the way to go. While it would make them more balanced with druids, I'd avoid the parenthetical times.

Sounds like a good fix for a class that needed it!

 

[Plane Sailing]

Thanks Johnny.

Partly my thinking is that the less combat optimised forms get to grant their useful bonuses for longer in noncombat situations (so the wererat could go spying in town, tracking by scent becomes more practical for the weaker forms). If I wanted to "flavour text" it, I might suggest that less magical energy is required to transmute into the less powerful forms, so the shifting can last longer.

Cheers

 

[darklight]

Now, I haven't got the book yet (should recieve it tomorrow though ) but that sounds like a very reasonable fix, and your "flavour text" idea makes perfect sense. Overall it should make it a versatile class, if you want combat power, you choose bear or tiger, but if you want a more rogue-like character you choose rat, which will be much more useful for this with the longer durations, or choose something in between. Nice

darklight

 

[MrFilthyIke]

I think balance is a nigh unattainable goal. I like it as is, though I'd probably let people shift more times per day for RP purposes (like a Rat spying, etc).

Not for combat munching, though.

 

[DonAdam]

Changes in duration would have to be big changes (like Plane Sailing's version). Just multiplying won't mean much when a shift still covers most of a fight.

Extra shifts runs into the same problem; most shifters will have enough shift feats that such differences would be negligible since you only need to shift so much in a day (eg, there is little difference between being able to shift 5 times a day and 10 times a day).

I might consider upping skill points and class skills. Let the wererat have 6 or 8 skill points per level. That would fit the theme of the lycanthropes better as well.