Flaming Sphere

[KarinsDad]

Flaming sphere sustain instructions a bit unique as Hypersmerf pointed out. Pg 278 on sustaining is a general rule which can be trumped by the specific, i.e. sustain as minor until the end of the encounter, as a standard action you can make another attack with the sphere. Applying this literally, the wizard would conjure the sphere attack with it, next turn he can sustain it as a minor action, and make another attack as standard action, that turn or later and dealing damage to anyone starting there turn next to it in the mean time. But after that another attack it would be a rolling hot foot, that could be moved as a move action to deal damage to those starting next to it.

I am not saying that I think that this is what they intended, but applied literial I think this is the result or close to it.

Yes, this is precisely what one can do with flaming sphere. As long as one sustains it each round first, they can (but do not have to) attack with it with a standard action and can (but do not have to) move it to damage foes on the start of the foe's next turn. Moving it without sustaining it on a latter turn (after the first) is worthless since it will expire at the end of the Wizard's turn if not sustained.

But, your statement here is not what Hyp was questioning.


One cannot do the standard action without sustaining first in the same turn because the standard action is part of the sustaining description:

Page 59

"The "Sustain" entry tells you if a power has an effect that occurs when you take the action to sustain it.

If one does not take the action to sustain it, one does not get the sustain effect.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If the minor action to sustain is not used, the effect written after the sustain minor action cannot be used.

In round 2, I take the minor action to sustain the power. The power will now expire at the end of my turn in round 3, assuming I don't take any more sustain actions.

Since I have sustained the power, the rule that I can take a standard action to make another attack with the sphere is now in effect.

Is there a reason I can't take that standard action in round 3, before the sphere expires?

-Hyp.

 

[KarinsDad]

In round 2, I take the minor action to sustain the power. The power will now expire at the end of my turn in round 3, assuming I don't take any more sustain actions.

Since I have sustained the power, the rule that I can take a standard action to make another attack with the sphere is now in effect.

Is there a reason I can't take that standard action in round 3, before the sphere expires?

Literally, no (sorry, I did not carefully read your question #3 above).

However, one cannot take the standard action in both round 2 and round 3. One can make "another attack" using a standard action, not two more attacks with the same sustain action of the sphere unless one sustains it again in which case the sustain effect comes into play again.

What this also means is that a PC could attack with it in round 3 with a standard action, use a minor to sustain it in round 3, and then use an action point in round 3 to attack with it again in round 3.

Course, this is really no different than any other two attacks in the same round using an action point.

It might feel fundamentally wrong to sustain it in round 2 and use it in round 3. But, as long as it's balanced, there's no problem there.

 

[Hypersmurf]

What this also means is that a PC could attack with it in round 3 with a standard action, use a minor to sustain it in round 3, and then use an action point in round 3 to attack with it again in round 3.

And how about sustain in round 2, sustain in round 3, and then (with an action point) attack twice with the sphere in round 4?

-Hyp.

 

[KarinsDad]

And how about sustain in round 2, sustain in round 3, and then (with an action point) attack twice with the sphere in round 4?

I don't understand why you asked a question for which you knew my answer already.

He could attack with the sphere in round 4 twice with an action point as long as he did not attack with the sphere in round 3.

So other attack round 3, two sphere attacks in round 4 with an action point.

How is this different balance-wise than sphere attack round 3, sphere attack and other attack in round 4 with an action point?

 

[mischa84]

As far as I played every enemy had a higher Ref than Fort wich led me to:
Use a minor to Sustain the sphere (for the extra DMG)
Use the Standard with Ray of Frost, which has the same Range and DMG but targets Fort instead of Ref;

It is a little bit easier to explain to your group and has some benefits:

when i will take burning blizzard even the DMG will get higher
you could say that about astral fire but a wizard does not get as much cold/acid spells as fire/radiant AND you can combine wintertouched and lasting frost with burning blizzard

so flaming sphere is nice in the beginning and to roast minions without making an attack
but later in the game I will get rid of it