Flanking Illusions?

[gamecat]

Suppose Ilene Illusionist casts a major image of Francine Fighter right next to a kobold that Ruth Rogue is in melee with.

Supposing the kobold fails a disbelief save, does Ruth get her sneak attack dice?

 

[Shellman]

Suppose Ilene Illusionist casts a major image of Francine Fighter right next to a kobold that Ruth Rogue is in melee with.

Supposing the kobold fails a disbelief save, does Ruth get her sneak attack dice?

Only for game flavor I would say yes. If the kobold fails his will save, I would rule he views the fighter (illusion to be real). Thus he views the fighter as a legit threat.

As far as game mechanics, I don't think the fighter illusion actually threatens the Kobold by the rules as written. So the rogue could not actually flank the Kobold.

So depending on how stringent your DM wants to handle the encounter.

 

[Shellman]

Suppose Ilene Illusionist casts a major image of Francine Fighter right next to a kobold that Ruth Rogue is in melee with.

Supposing the kobold fails a disbelief save, does Ruth get her sneak attack dice?

Only for game flavor I would say yes. If the kobold fails his will save, I would rule he views the fighter (illusion) to be real. Thus he views the fighter as a legit threat.

As far as game mechanics, I don't think the fighter illusion actually threatens the Kobold by the rules as written. So the rogue could not actually flank the Kobold.

So it depends on how your DM wants to handle the encounter.

 

[Sejs]

Suppose Ilene Illusionist casts a major image of Francine Fighter right next to a kobold that Ruth Rogue is in melee with.

Supposing the kobold fails a disbelief save, does Ruth get her sneak attack dice?

I'd say yes.

The kobold reacts to the illusionary fighter as if it were real, including splitting his defensive attention between the two potential threats.

Which is all Ruth Rogue needs to get in a good solid sneak attack.

 

[frankthedm]

Visable illusions only cause flanking if invisable foes don't cause flanking.

 

[Fieari]

IMC, yes. IMC, I also allow people to "ignore" flankers, making them flatfooted against the one ignored. Neither of these rulings are RAW though, and I fully admit them to be house rules.

When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by a character or creature friendly to you on the opponent’s opposite border or opposite corner.

Emphasis mine. Illusions are neither characters nor creatures, and thus cannot be used to flank. Thems the rules. That's why I don't follow them. Because an illusionary flanker against someone who failed a save just makes sense to me.

To open an old can 'o worms, this is a similar issue for magic missile being able to pop mirror images. By RAW Illusions aren't creatures.

 

[Sejs]

Emphasis mine. Illusions are neither characters nor creatures, and thus cannot be used to flank. Thems the rules. That's why I don't follow them. Because an illusionary flanker against someone who failed a save just makes sense to me.

Heh, a strict reading of those rules also reveals to us something we've all been doing wrong this whole time:

Apparently characters arn't creatures!

I honestly had no idea.

 

[irdeggman]

More importantly the illusion doesn't "threaten". Notice it has nothing to do with the "perception" of the foe.

So an unarmed ally (without a melee weapon, IUS or a held touch attack spell) on the opposite side of a foe does not provide a "flanking" bonus. technically neither does someone who no longer has attacks remaining.


from the SRD:

Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity.

 

[Dei]

I would say yes. Think about it, if a creature is summoned behind you while you're fighting you are threatened. Now say that that creature is constantly missing you and deals no damage. But you still percieve it as a threat and so you are still flanked. Replace the creature with an illusion, it's having the same net effect on the flanked character (not dealing any damage) but the character, having failed their will save still sees it as a threat and therefore splits their attention, just as if it were real.

Now say for example that neither the rogue nor the character he is attempting to sneak attack know that the creature is an illusion. As far as all those involved in the melee know a third character has arrived in a flanking position and is "threatening" the middle character. For a DM to say to the rogue, "You don't get sneak attack." in this situation would be ridiculous. One of the main strengths of the shadowdancer prestige class is it's ability to gain flanking by creating illusionary allies.

 

[irdeggman]

I would say yes. Think about it, if a creature is summoned behind you while you're fighting you are threatened. Now say that that creature is constantly missing you and deals no damage. But you still percieve it as a threat and so you are still flanked. Replace the creature with an illusion, it's having the same net effect on the flanked character (not dealing any damage) but the character, having failed their will save still sees it as a threat and therefore splits their attention, just as if it were real.

While this makes sense - the RAW doesn't take the "distracting" as the basis for how flanking works. The mechanics are very specific on how it works.

Now say for example that neither the rogue nor the character he is attempting to sneak attack know that the creature is an illusion. As far as all those involved in the melee know a third character has arrived in a flanking position and is "threatening" the middle character. For a DM to say to the rogue, "You don't get sneak attack." in this situation would be ridiculous. One of the main strengths of the shadowdancer prestige class is it's ability to gain flanking by creating illusionary allies.

Or the shadow dancer uses his shadow illusion to make a better get away. Silent image was designed to provide a distraction to escape.

In order to move the image you must use concentration which will limit your sneak attack.

Concentration: The spell lasts as long as you concentrate on it. Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Anything that could break your concentration when casting a spell can also break your concentration while you’re maintaining one, causing the spell to end.
You can’t cast a spell while concentrating on another one. Sometimes a spell lasts for a short time after you cease concentrating.

Standard action to concentrate hence no attack action. So the class will not work the way you imagine it does with regard to the silent image.