flanking

[Mistwell]

Grey zombie and blue fighter are flanks due to stealth errata.

OK then I am a bit confused. It seems to me you can match corner to corner between two allies, and if that line pases through opposite sides of the foe, you are flanking. But your chart doesn't seem to account for that happenstance. Each fighter on the outside circle of your chart is offering flanking to only one foe, but it seems to me they offer flanking versus more than one foe.

For example, take the blue fighter at the top of your chart on the right. Draw a line from his upper left corner to the chain-fighter's upper left corner. That line passes through opposite sides of a foe (a red guy on the top-middle) that you do not have labeled as being flanked in that manner. What am I misreading?

 

[Zurai]

Draw a line from his upper left corner to the chain-fighter's upper left corner. That line passes through opposite sides of a foe (a red guy on the top-middle) that you do not have labeled as being flanked in that manner. What am I misreading?

Read the PHB excerpt Frank posted again. You must draw the line from the CENTER of one of the squares the unit occupies. You cannot just pick a random arbitrary point to draw your line from.

 

[Hypersmurf]

For example, take the blue fighter at the top of your chart on the right. Draw a line from his upper left corner to the chain-fighter's upper left corner. That line passes through opposite sides of a foe (a red guy on the top-middle) that you do not have labeled as being flanked in that manner. What am I misreading?

When in doubt about whether two friendly characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two friendly characters’ centers.

Drawing a line from upper left corner to upper left corner might pass through opposite sides of a foe, but that's irrelevant.

-Hyp.

 

[Mistwell]

When in doubt about whether two friendly characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two friendly characters’ centers.

Drawing a line from upper left corner to upper left corner might pass through opposite sides of a foe, but that's irrelevant.

-Hyp.

I understand, but it sure seems to me that you threaten in the manner I described, and the base rule is whether or not you threaten there.

 

[Zurai]

I understand, but it sure seems to me that you threaten in the manner I described, and the base rule is whether or not you threaten there.

No, the base rule has nothing to do with threat. Threat is measured in squares. There's no question about which creatures the swordsmen threaten. You never draw lines to determine whether you threaten a given square, only for flanking (or Line spells/effects).

 

[Hypersmurf]

I understand, but it sure seems to me that you threaten in the manner I described, and the base rule is whether or not you threaten there.

There are three conditions that must be met in order for someone to grant you a flanking bonus while you make a melee attack.

1. They must be friendly to you. Let's assume that to be true.
2. They must threaten the opponent. Let's assume the red fighter is also using a reach weapon, so in this case he threatens. No ptoblem.
3. They must be directly opposite. How can we tell? We draw a line between the two characters' centers. When we do this, it doesn't pass through opposite borders of the target's square... so you aren't flanking.

-Hyp.

 

[Mistwell]

No, the base rule has nothing to do with threat. Threat is measured in squares. There's no question about which creatures the swordsmen threaten. You never draw lines to determine whether you threaten a given square, only for flanking (or Line spells/effects).

By "base rule" I meant "fundamental rule" not "base of the figure" rule

The fundamental rule is whether or not the opposite side is threatened was what I was saying: "threatened by a character or creature friendly to you on the opponent’s opposite border or opposite corner." That opposite border or opposite corner does appear to be threatened by a character or creature friendly to the spiked chain fighter in the middle.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The fundamental rule is whether or not the opposite side is threatened was what I was saying.

The fundamental rule is whether the opponent is threatened by a creature friendly to you and directly opposite.

To determine "directly opposite", we draw a line between the centers, not a line between the corners.

Not whether a friendly creature threatens the opposite corner, but whether a friendly creature on the opposite corner threatens.

Consider - we have an orc. I stand to the east of the orc, adjacent. You stand to the south of the orc, adjacent. I draw a line from the northwest corner of my square to the northwest corner of your square. This line passes through opposite corners of the orc's square - northeast to southwest. Do you feel we're flanking the orc?

-Hyp.

 

[Legildur]

When in doubt about whether two friendly characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two friendly characters’ centers.

How does this work with creatures of size large or larger? Do you choose centre of creature or centre of one of the squares of your choice?

 

[Zurai]

How does this work with creatures of size large or larger? Do you choose centre of creature or centre of one of the squares of your choice?

With creatures that take up more than one square, you can choose the center of any of that creature's squares to determine flanking.