Flat-Footed Question

[Dark Ranger]

Last night during our game the party was surprised by a pair of hobgoblins who charged them (they were 15 feet away).

Then the party rolled for initiative and the rogue had the highest (27) while the hobgoblins had the next highest (18).

The player of the rogue felt that the hobgoblins were flat-footed because they had not acted in a 'regular round' (from pg 120 in the PHB). I over ruled him and said no because they had already acted.

Am I wrong or was I the intended victom of a power gamer/rules-lawyer?

 

[Orco42]

The hobgoblins were not flat footed. They had already acted.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

You are correct, Dark Ranger. However, the confusion resulted because you rolled initiative for the bad guys with everyone else. Technically, you should have rolled their initiative before the surprise round. Then each aware combatant gets a partial action in the initiative order. So the hobgoblins' initiative was already established, they acted, so they are not flat-footed. After the surprise round, the others may join the battle, roll initiative, and the order starts with the highest initiative. The hobgoblins will not be flat-footed because they already acted.

Tell your player he is quoting the general rule, but to read the special surprise section after that, which supplements the rule. How can the hobgoblins surprise them, attack them, and then be flat-footed? That makes no sense.