Flavor Mish-mash and favored classes (what 4e got wrong)

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

Spore is a video game where you have some options or choices to develop a race in a certain environment where other races may be present. It is supposed to work like it could work in the real world. Biology and stuff. Now, I do not believe D&D is accustomed to something like this. And I have doubts any tabletop rpg could achieve something like this as it would need to communicate a plethora of information to make it interesting as a group game experience -information on a different level than what we can bring on the table which is our socialization and some rules and fluff.

Where did I say I was trying to do an entire development of a race? I just said I'm trying to play one to think how it would feel to be inside one. Why does that need a "plethora of information"?

But this medium lies always in your head. It is what you can make out of it. You can't roleplay something you do not know or understand.

I just told you I don't know or understand adventuring. Or for that matter living in a world less advanced and/or peaceful that our own. But I can suspend my lack of knowledge/understanding.

This is up to the setting-adventure to convince you. Monsters are coming and you need to defend yourselves otherwise risk worse fate or reputation. Generally you should not have better things to do -you should be pushed towards it somehow.

And I can always choose to let my character die and not give into the game. Not understanding adventuring motivation means not giving a damn what happens to a fictional character, but I can always decide to play along.

 

[xechnao]

I'm not trying to do this. I'm trying to imagine having a different body.

With D&D you just imagine ways to interact with the world and solve imaginary problems. You do not imagine how a plant feels.

I just told you I don't know or understand adventuring. Or for that matter living in a world less advanced and/or peaceful that our own. But I can suspend my lack of knowledge/understanding.

And I can always choose to let my character die and not give into the game. Not understanding adventuring motivation means not giving a damn what happens to a fictional character, but I can always decide to play along.[/quote]

Do you understand the rules of the game? Do you understand that you have to play the game with other people- that it is a social game?

You may not want to play it. It is up to you. But as in your real social life you experience certain situations, you feel certain situations the same oughts to happen in the game. The game is about giving an environment where these experiences could be lived and developed. And it happens to be an exciting environment -one with action and risks. Because this is what people want.
I

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

Do you understand the rules of the game? Do you understand that you have to play the game with other people- that it is a social game?

You may not want to play it. It is up to you. But as in your real social life you experience certain situations, you feel certain situations the same oughts to happen in the game. The game is about giving an environment where these experiences could be lived and developed. And it happens to be an exciting environment -one with action and risks. Because this is what people want.I

These are all your opinions. Why are you presenting them as fact? Yes, D&D is a social game. But people socialize in different ways. Your way isn't the only way.

 

[xechnao]

These are all your opinions. Why are you presenting them as fact? Yes, D&D is a social game. But people socialize in different ways. Your way isn't the only way.

Cause it is a fact I can not socialize with other people as a plant or a different animal or someone that it is not me. No one can really do this I believe. I can socialize as myself, imagining to have certain problems and capabilities to do or achieve things, I, as myself, would want to solve or achieve. These capabilities could be handsome and skilled with a bow -or simply just my reputation- that give me a certain relative advantage to solve these problems. But nothing past that.

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

Cause it is a fact I can not socialize with other people as a plant or a different animal or someone that it is not me. No one can really do this I believe. I can socialize as myself, imagining to have certain problems and capabilities to do or achieve things, I, as myself, would want to solve or achieve. These capabilities could be handsome and skilled with a bow -or simply just my reputation- that give me a certain relative advantage to solve these problems. But nothing past that.

Okay, you seem to be saying that you socialize within the game, so you couldn't do that if people played things they were not.

I'm saying I socialize outside the game as the game is going, I'm not going to bind myself to the in-game world for that. So I can play what I want and it doesn't get in the way: I have the inside world and the outside world and they don't have to mix or trip each other up.

This is where we disagree. I'm just trying to defend my style, but not convince you you have to adopt it.

 

[xechnao]

Okay, you seem to be saying that you socialize within the game, so you couldn't do that if people played things they were not.

I'm saying I socialize outside the game as the game is going, I'm not going to bind myself to the in-game world for that. So I can play what I want and it doesn't get in the way: I have the inside world and the outside world and they don't have to mix or trip each other up.

This is where we disagree. I'm just trying to defend my style, but not convince you you have to adopt it.

I understand what's up for you as you are saying it here. To me this would be a game I play with a group of friends. Perhaps a game on a fantasy theme or whatever theme it happens to be about. And this should usually be a game where the goal of game mastery is relevant. But it will not be a roleplaying game, which for me it needs to have this distinctive feature mentioned in your first sentence-and I want to add preferably no game mastery as a game goal.

 

[ryryguy]

From all the examples, the only thing that "bothers" me is the fact the Tiefling Warlock mismatch - the Tiefling were created by the fact that they were all dealing with devils, I would expect their stats to reflect that.

Ah, but that whole "dealing with devils" thing didn't work out so well for them in the long run, did it? Maybe most of the survivors of the fall of their empire were the ones less suited for becoming infernal warlocks...


(But seriously, I agree, this is probably the one that sticks out the most to me as well.)

 

[Midnight Dawns]

While I agree that it would be nice for the tiefling to make a batter infernal lock, Arcane Power does mention them as tending to be locks of other types instead though the reason is more of a cultural/psycological than a lack of predisposed physical ability.
"The tiefliing is the prototypical warlock. The race's innately high Charisma adn Intelligence tend to make tieflings favor the class. Many tieflings swear pacts to vestiges, Far Realms creatures, and ancient, fey entities, perhaps out of the desire to break the mold of their predecessors in Bail Turath, who often adopted the infernal pact."

 

[ferratus]

While I agree that it would be nice for the tiefling to make a batter infernal lock, Arcane Power does mention them as tending to be locks of other types instead though the reason is more of a cultural/psycological than a lack of predisposed physical ability.
"The tiefliing is the prototypical warlock. The race's innately high Charisma adn Intelligence tend to make tieflings favor the class. Many tieflings swear pacts to vestiges, Far Realms creatures, and ancient, fey entities, perhaps out of the desire to break the mold of their predecessors in Bail Turath, who often adopted the infernal pact."

Weak. Just very, very weak.