Floating Powers (Was: WoTC March 2009 Editorial Calendar)

[I'm A Banana]

WalterKovacs pointed out how a lot of "generic" powers already exist.

I also groove on the "advanced racial powers" and Sabathius's suggestion for skill-specific utilities, though both would presumably require taking those instead of your normal class powers, which could end up leading to some accidental suck unless those advanced racial powers or skill-specific utilities broke down along role lines (so that dwarf strikers look different than dwarf defenders, and so that controllers who know History are different than leaders that know History)....that can eat up a lot of pagecount if you don't want to look like you're favoring one or the other.

 

[ppaladin123]

Before I noticed this thread, I suggested that there also could be advanced racial powers. Special powers beyond first level that characters of a certain race can take.

The problem is, it'll make some races seem more special than others, as a couple of them will likely be lacking, while others will have more than enough.

There are a couple instances of this in Dragon magazine. The Dragonborn and Warforged both have the option of taking special racial powers via feat if they meet the prerequisites (other feats). The powers are all utility powers and you have to swap out one of your regular class or paragon path utilities to take them.

 

[RodneyThompson]

So, there is definitely room for generic powers, however making them available in such a way that a character could go without choosing any of their own classes powers should probably be avoided. While paladins would like to have more STR based powers to choose from (see also CON with warlock), it's important to avoid characters going too far towards classlessness.

Right. That's the key with all the non-class associated powers so far--they're intertwined with other systems in such a way that you continue to be able to serve your function even after the power's been taken.

Also, Utility powers are where the most flexibility lies. There's certainly an argument to be made that utility powers can be changed out almost entirely without affecting your ability to contribute to your role. The question is: what does a generic "floating" power (by which I mean just a power that you take in place of one of your class powers, with no associated cost or subsystem) contribute, and how do you implement it?

I'm just interested to see what the armchair designers think on this one, since it's one of those areas where we've experimented.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Sudden Inspiration:

Utility, Daily, level 2, Floating power, minor action.

Generic flavor text here along the line of years of training granting insight into a situation.

You gain a +5 bonus to any one skill check or a +2 bonus to any defense until end of next turn.



/my idea, though may be too good.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

*Grumbles about moving from comfy bed to armchair*

Hmm... I would say for myself personally especially if going with Utility Powers would be to serve as a additional flavour/path for a character/class. So you could have instead of "Class Powers", you could have "Theme Powers".

The Paladin would choose Floating Powers to generate a additional theme to his normal Paladin fluff. Say the Theme is Technology, so he is a Paladin who serves Erathis, to bring this across even more he chooses Floating Powers under the Technology Theme. Same could go with a Rogue who uses clockwork devices to sneak around, etc.

Implementation, I would say these would be a good thing for say Setting books or books related to a specific subject matter. So to run with Technology, say a setting has a abundance of technology instead of giving every class technology oriented Powers. You give these Floating Powers. Or just a book on Technology and has these Powers.

I am sure too there is plenty of Themes that can be thought up (just picked Technology since well I like tech ) they don't I think need to be as concrete as Technology, "Espionage" or "Social", etc. could all be themes. I could even see Themes be expanded to other things, like PPs, Feats, etc. Just like you have Feats that give a bonus to say Powers with Fire you could give a bonus to Technology Theme Powers.

I enjoy how refluffable/how easy it is to refluff core Powers/Classes in 4e. So by having these more Theme/Flavour tied option as well a option and not tied down to certain classes or something you HAVE to have. It gives one a chance to pick and choose what flavour they want by melding their own flavour in the core experience with these specifically tailored components.

 

[blargney the second]

I've been talking with some local players about putting together a fantasy CSI game, and I could see floating powers as a way to help us do that with 4e.

Say I wanted to make a charismatic face for our investigative party, and our group has established that this is to be a relatively low-combat campaign. I'd grab some floating power-swap feats, and my guy could get a couple of Cha vs Will attack powers that would give me a chance to gain certain kinds of information. A prolonged interrogation could be Cha vs Fort.
-blarg

 

[questing gm]

Floating powers can only be taken by a character that has a multiclass from a different power source. These floating powers are what defines the most generic abilities that power source has to offer and it would provide more variety to the character without taking a power that would benefit specifically to a certain class that they have multiclassed into.

Just a thought.

 

[jensun]

Personally I think one of the benefits of such floating powers would be to allow characters to move more outside of their core role. You may not be keen on that but the extent to which classes are limited by role has been a fairly common complaint about 4e and one of those which has a degree of merit for someone looking for something a bit more flexible.

We already have classes which have a fairly clear secondary role built into them. Paladins make decent leaders, Clerics, Rogues and Warlocks can control, Fighters and Wizards can manage striker levels of damage. The Warlord and the Ranger are the only two classes which struggle to manage a secondary role (and Warlords may well have one as I am not that familiar wit them).

Given that we aready have classes managing secondary roles is there any harm in expanding on that a bit?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I like the idea of more action point triggered powers, and I think utilities are also have good potential for being "generic".

To be honest, I think 4E should have had a specific "non-combat" power system, too. Utilities are this _sometimes_, but often they are combat related (shifting, healing, defense bonus, saves). This means often for Utility Powers, combat and non-combat compete for attention, and this is often weakening the non-combat ability.

Maybe feats that allow you to do something like the Channel Divinity powers.
You select two powers for a slot - one of your class and one general. You can in any given day (daily powers) or any given encounter (encounter powers) only use one of these powers.

You could consciously try to theme these extra powers along the idea of "non-combat" roles.
The Face (helps for social skills and skill challenges), the Guide (tracking, traps, navigation, survival skils and challenges), the Loremaster (Knowledge research, maybe even healing related skills and challenges, and ritual orientated).
Maybe have a base feat for each of these non-combat roles, that gives an action point power (that can be used in a non-combat context - skill challenges count as encounters, too!), and additional feats (maybe one per tier) to get general powers that fit the role.

A think that one has to keep in mind with Action Point Powers - they give diminishing returns. You get only 1 action point per milestone, so all you get is a little more flexibility. These powers and the feats will have to be balanced accordingly.

 

[Quickleaf]

Thanks for bringing this topic up Fallen Seraph and Moridin, it's been in the back of my mind.

Right. That's the key with all the non-class associated powers so far--they're intertwined with other systems in such a way that you continue to be able to serve your function even after the power's been taken.

Also, Utility powers are where the most flexibility lies. There's certainly an argument to be made that utility powers can be changed out almost entirely without affecting your ability to contribute to your role. The question is: what does a generic "floating" power (by which I mean just a power that you take in place of one of your class powers, with no associated cost or subsystem) contribute, and how do you implement it?

I'm just interested to see what the armchair designers think on this one, since it's one of those areas where we've experimented.

Without adding a new subsystem (non-combat roles, gadget creation, etc.), I agree that race and skills are the best places to implement alternate utility powers, though you could extend the idea to alignment, environment, or any other area you wanted.

I'd imagine it like a set of utility powers organized into the "Elf" suite, the "Athletics" suite, the "Lawful Good" suite, etc.

If you wanted to include action points in the process, you could allow a player to switch these "floating" utility powers with an AP.

For example, take an Elven Ranger whose party is surprised by a white dragon cloaked in magical darkness. The ranger along with several party members get pushed into a freezing river. Using his Athletics utility power, the ranger makes a Jump check from the water onto the land, as if the river spat him out! He then spends an AP to change his "floating utility power" to an elven one that changes his low-light vision into the infrared spectrum allowing him to pinpoint the cold signature of the white dragon and take aim with his bow.

Maybe my example isn't the best, but that's the basic idea.