Fluff vs Crunch

[Agamon]

I've noticed something interesting. Some people are getting quite upset over some of the cosmetic changes to the game. As a DM, is not really easy to control, say, the height and behavior of races, inclusion of certain races and classes as PCs, the flavor of the campaign world, etc? Isn't the fundimental mechanical changes more important? Changes to alignment, the skill list, modifier progression, balance along the level progression line, etc, are changes I've seen people ask for here for years.

Cost, edition loyalty and whatever is understandable to a point, I guess, but getting in a tizzy over gnomes and such, I don't get that. Am I the only one?

 

[Black Knight Irios]

I don't understand some complaints either.

But, you know, there will always be people that are complaining about things you can't understand or you don't want to understand...

 

[Brother MacLaren]

A 1st-level wizard with an inexhaustible magical attack is both a mechanical change and a flavor change. It fundamentally changes my conception of what a 1st-level wizard is.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Cost, edition loyalty and whatever is understandable to a point, I guess, but getting in a tizzy over gnomes and such, I don't get that. Am I the only one?

What cosmetic changes are the gnomes getting, other than a really good invisibility spell?

 

[JohnSnow]

Cost, edition loyalty and whatever is understandable to a point, I guess, but getting in a tizzy over gnomes and such, I don't get that. Am I the only one?

I agree with you that it seems like a strange reason to be upset. But I think I understand where people are coming from.

We have gotten very little "hard" information about Fourth Edition. As a result, people are speculating about the whole based on the snippets we've gotten to date. Some people see changes to the fluff as indicative of an attitude on the part of the designers. They see those fluff changes (like eliminating gnomes from the PHB) or fluff decisions (adding Dragonborn, or naming a wizard tradition "Golden Wyvern") and conclude that nothing about D&D is "sacred" to the designers.

As a result, these people are concluding that 4e will not really be D&D, because it's clear to them that the designers have no regard for the things which make D&D uniquely "D&D" (in their opinion, of course).

I do not agree with their conclusion, partially because I don't agree with their assertions, but I think I at least understand it. Although I certainly haven't like all the feat names I've heard about, I have been actually bothered by precisely 3 announcements:

1) The possible delay in a druid class.
2) The rather extreme bump in stature for halflings and dwarves (I like my halflings to be around 3.5 feet tall and dwarves to be around 4 feet). However, this is easily correctable.
3) The implication that magic items may still be both necessary and disposable.

 

[grimslade]

What cosmetic changes are the gnomes getting, other than a really good invisibility spell?

Not Invisibility they are getting a Baleful Transposition to the MM with a Reduce on flavor and fluff.

 

[frankthedm]

A 1st-level wizard with an inexhaustible magical attack is both a mechanical change and a flavor change. It fundamentally changes my conception of what a 1st-level wizard is.

3.5 First level NPC wizard had 900 gp in gear, more than enough to have a wand of magic missle or an orb spell which is practically 'at will'.

 

[Agamon]

We have gotten very little "hard" information about Fourth Edition. As a result, people are speculating about the whole based on the snippets we've gotten to date. Some people see changes to the fluff as indicative of an attitude on the part of the designers. They see those fluff changes (like eliminating gnomes from the PHB) or fluff decisions (adding Dragonborn, or naming a wizard tradition "Golden Wyvern") and conclude that nothing about D&D is "sacred" to the designers.

As a result, these people are concluding that 4e will not really be D&D, because it's clear to them that the designers have no regard for the things which make D&D uniquely "D&D" (in their opinion, of course).

I agree with this to a point. The thing I'm most upset with, more than any of the info we've gotten, is how we've gotten the info. Really bad PR, WotC, really bad. But I know, in the end, that's not going to change the game that comes out next year (well, not significantly).

That said, that's a pretty huge leap to make, from Dragonborn and Golden Wyvern to "I no longer recognize this game". It still has levels, hps, HDs, AC. It's not the same game, of course, or why would anyone buy it? But it's still D&D. My opinion, I guess. Maybe some people see D&D as more than the rules that make up it's foundation and structure.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Not Invisibility they are getting a Baleful Transposition to the MM with a Reduce on flavor and fluff.

That's just what we want you to think. (Told you it was a really good spell.)

I don't want to completely spoil it, but 2009 is going to be the "Year of the G___E!"

 

[TerraDave]

I agree with this to a point. The thing I'm most upset with, more than any of the info we've gotten, is how we've gotten the info. Really bad PR, WotC, really bad. But I know, in the end, that's not going to change the game that comes out next year (well, not significantly).

That said, that's a pretty huge leap to make, from Dragonborn and Golden Wyvern to "I no longer recognize this game". It still has levels, hps, HDs, AC. It's not the same game, of course, or why would anyone buy it? But it's still D&D. My opinion, I guess. Maybe some people see D&D as more than the rules that make up it's foundation and structure.

Ya, thats basically it.

They picked some odd things to put out there and say "hey isn't this cool". In the process they have giving the impression that mediocre "fluff" and dubious changes (e.g. dropping gnomes for a lizard race we don't know much about) are what the new game is about.

Hopefully they will finally finish the core rules, show some of the mechanics they have worked so hard on, and do a better job of highlighting how they are going to meet all those promises they have made.