D&D 5E Flying Races: Limiting Flight

[Xeviat]

I very much want to use the race for players (I have a bat race also that will have flight too). Since one player is excited about the race from their culture and gender dynamics, I don't want to forbid them.

Rhenny's point about level and feats is interesting. Spurred by their point, I don't want the flight to auto improve with level. I'll have it improve with a feat, so the elite warriors with better flight are at least 4th level. That's around the time 3rd level spells pop up, so it should be fine.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

My Kenku rogue feels that all flight capable characters should be banned purely on principle. ;-)

 

[Erechel]

Like many above said, I don't see a per se problem with flying creatures. I DM a shared Argentinian world (belonging to the FRA), called Fralia, in which an avian, owlesque and alcoholic race called Stolasi, AKA the "partying owls", is one of the main races of the world (a reskinned version of the aarackocra). In almost every table I've dm'ed, at least one player chooses a Stolasi, and so far I've had no troubles at all with them flying. D&D has enough limitations to flying baked in, just to remember:

1) A flying creature that doesn't hover with its speed reduced to 0 falls to the ground.
2) Strong winds knock flying creatures prone. (You can say that almost every storm does so, and certain altitudes have always stronger winds). Flying characters will always be watching the weather.
3) Grappled, Restrained and Unconscious conditions reduce speed to 0.
d4) Attacks of Opportunity still apply to flying creatures without Flyby feature or Mobile feat. Melee fighting isn't going to be popular.
4) Aarackocras can't fly while wearing medium or heavy armor. (In my world, they instead can't flight when encumbered, which is a bonus to the players picking at least a moderate Strength score).
5) Three dimensions: going up and down costs movement, so if your aaracockra types start in the ground, wants to fly 10 feet up and escape, it would be actually moving 40 feet. Add the cost of going down, and you can move 30 feet.
6) Ranged weapons and Focus fire: if a flying, light armored and huge creature starts casting a spell, most ranged enemies will focus fire on it, and when you are flying it is really difficult to find cover. Add a few weapons such as nets or bolas (see the DM's Guild for the Ancient Armoury file), and then you have a killer combo. This is a common sense ruling of any sensible DM playing intelligent enemies. And even stupids that doesn't bring secondary weapons such as javelins can still throw rocks and make 1d4+strength damage (improvised weapons, remember?)
7) Earthbind spell.
8) Flying doesn't allow stealth. A 2,30 m tall bird in the bright sky is going to be big frickin target in the sky, a particularly awful trait for a Dex character. This was a hard lesson for my Stolasi cleric when he was scouting above an enemy camp and stones and arrows flew. It was even harsher when a green dragon saw him from almost 10 kilometers.
9) Unless all the characters have means to fly, most chasms and bridges and such will still be a challenge to overcome.
10) Flying monsters.

With all this baked in, you still want to nerf them? Let me help you.
-Use exhaustion. For every hour of flying, a creature must succeed on a DC 10 Constitution save or gain a level of exhaustion. This save could increase in one step per check, so only frickingly resilient creatures could pass more than 3 hous flying.
-Increase food requirements. I require that stolasis eat fresh meat daily, or they get sick (exhaustion again).
-Give disadvantage to two handed or/and heavy weapons while flying. The birdman can't take a longbow and fire from above. It still can use a javelin or a spear.
-Use Encumbrance instead of limiting the armor. This is a better rule to avoid stupid tactics such as grappling an ogre and dropping it from above. You can still do it with a goblin, if your character is particularly strong.
-Rain halves the speed of a flying creature, and increase the weight in 10 pounds.
-10 foot wingspan. 15 is way too much.

All in all, flying would still be a nice add-on to a creature, specially to casters and scouts, and to overcome many obstacles, but nowhere as broken as it seems. They are nice in battles, as they can use a lot of mobility, but they aren't paticularly heavy hitters. Unless they choose the correct feat/ combo (rogue & mobile give you 120 feet movement and don't trigger OA), they are somewhat fragile.

 

[jasper]

"This is outrage. I demand to see the manager. I came to clean up this one horse town. Now they letting in aarackokra!"
Drip along D. Duck!

 

[Charlaquin]

Like many above said, I don't see a per se problem with flying creatures. I DM a shared Argentinian world (belonging to the FRA), called Fralia, in which an avian, owlesque and alcoholic race called Stolasi, AKA the "partying owls", is one of the main races of the world (a reskinned version of the aarackocra). In almost every table I've dm'ed, at least one player chooses a Stolasi, and so far I've had no troubles at all with them flying. D&D has enough limitations to flying baked in, just to remember:

1) A flying creature that doesn't hover with its speed reduced to 0 falls to the ground.
2) Strong winds knock flying creatures prone. (You can say that almost every storm does so, and certain altitudes have always stronger winds). Flying characters will always be watching the weather.
3) Grappled, Restrained and Unconscious conditions reduce speed to 0.
d4) Attacks of Opportunity still apply to flying creatures without Flyby feature or Mobile feat. Melee fighting isn't going to be popular.
4) Aarackocras can't fly while wearing medium or heavy armor. (In my world, they instead can't flight when encumbered, which is a bonus to the players picking at least a moderate Strength score).
5) Three dimensions: going up and down costs movement, so if your aaracockra types start in the ground, wants to fly 10 feet up and escape, it would be actually moving 40 feet. Add the cost of going down, and you can move 30 feet.
6) Ranged weapons and Focus fire: if a flying, light armored and huge creature starts casting a spell, most ranged enemies will focus fire on it, and when you are flying it is really difficult to find cover. Add a few weapons such as nets or bolas (see the DM's Guild for the Ancient Armoury file), and then you have a killer combo. This is a common sense ruling of any sensible DM playing intelligent enemies. And even stupids that doesn't bring secondary weapons such as javelins can still throw rocks and make 1d4+strength damage (improvised weapons, remember?)
7) Earthbind spell.
8) Flying doesn't allow stealth. A 2,30 m tall bird in the bright sky is going to be big frickin target in the sky, a particularly awful trait for a Dex character. This was a hard lesson for my Stolasi cleric when he was scouting above an enemy camp and stones and arrows flew. It was even harsher when a green dragon saw him from almost 10 kilometers.
9) Unless all the characters have means to fly, most chasms and bridges and such will still be a challenge to overcome.
10) Flying monsters.

With all this baked in, you still want to nerf them? Let me help you.
-Use exhaustion. For every hour of flying, a creature must succeed on a DC 10 Constitution save or gain a level of exhaustion. This save could increase in one step per check, so only frickingly resilient creatures could pass more than 3 hous flying.
-Increase food requirements. I require that stolasis eat fresh meat daily, or they get sick (exhaustion again).
-Give disadvantage to two handed or/and heavy weapons while flying. The birdman can't take a longbow and fire from above. It still can use a javelin or a spear.
-Use Encumbrance instead of limiting the armor. This is a better rule to avoid stupid tactics such as grappling an ogre and dropping it from above. You can still do it with a goblin, if your character is particularly strong.
-Rain halves the speed of a flying creature, and increase the weight in 10 pounds.
-10 foot wingspan. 15 is way too much.

All in all, flying would still be a nice add-on to a creature, specially to casters and scouts, and to overcome many obstacles, but nowhere as broken as it seems. They are nice in battles, as they can use a lot of mobility, but they aren't paticularly heavy hitters. Unless they choose the correct feat/ combo (rogue & mobile give you 120 feet movement and don't trigger OA), they are somewhat fragile.

For me, the issue isn’t restricting flight in combat. As you observe, the DM has plenty of tools for dealing with that. For me, the problem with races that grant flying at level 1 is that it makes it so you can’t use flight as a gating tool. Normally, you can count on players not being able to bypass certain obstacles until certain levels, and use those obstacles to restrict areas in a dungeon-like or hexploration environment. Allowing flying races without a restriction like having to end their movement on the ground or fall means you can no longer count on a category of obstacles to work as effective gates.

 

[Erechel]

For me, the issue isn’t restricting flight in combat. As you observe, the DM has plenty of tools for dealing with that. For me, the problem with races that grant flying at level 1 is that it makes it so you can’t use flight as a gating tool. Normally, you can count on players not being able to bypass certain obstacles until certain levels, and use those obstacles to restrict areas in a dungeon-like or hexploration environment. Allowing flying races without a restriction like having to end their movement on the ground or fall means you can no longer count on a category of obstacles to work as effective gates.

Well, as I've said earlier, unless the whole party has flying speed, those obstacles or gating tools as you've said are still going to be a problem.
And besides, why do you even want a flying race if they don't really gain anything from it? And also, the gating issue it really isn't such a big concern, is more a niche thing. If you believe that a hexcrawl would be "ruined" over a single character with flying capabilities, you are plain wrong. A single casting of a familiar spell (choosing an owl, eg) will grant you the same sky perspective also at will. And I've pointed several obstacles that make fly a non issue as well: strong winds pretty much locks down fly, and the lack of stealth makes flying a dangerous issue, for example.
Even more, from an exploration perspective, you aren't benefited by flying at all, such as when you are tracking creatures, or need to explore a forest (from above you only see trees). You could only spot general terrain features, such as landscape. The only constant benefit of flying is not being stopped by chasms when there is no wind. And then your party is still going to be stopped.

With all that said, if there is such obstacles that are automatically solved by having one character flying, please INCLUDE THEM. Don't punish character's because they chose a flying creature, let them think they have chosen something worthy, useful for the party.

Let them have the cake and eat it too.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

Hi everyone. I'm getting ready to run a game in my own setting again, and I have an avian race. I'll probably just give it the Aarakocra stats, but I'd like to give them a little more to round them out. In turn, I also want to limit their flight. Here's some of the ideas I'm milling over:

*Flying is an action until higher levels. Swinging a weapon of firing a ranged weapon is hard while flapping.
*No flight in tight quarters. Size increases to 15 by 15 while flying and no flying if you have to squeeze.
*Grant advantage to hit on rounds you fly. Since your wings are so big, it's easier to hit you.
*3E maneuverability rules. These are complicated and could be simplified.
*Glide speed at low levels. Every round you descend X ft.
*Enhanced jumps. A trade off for these restrictions is the ability to use your wings for larger jumps.

I could have some of these restrictions fade with level, or with a racial feat.

Any thoughts? I won't be running premade adventures, so I won't have to worry about challenges that weren't designed with flight in mind, but one of the players is liking the bird race and wants to play one.

I'm kind of rethinking my position a little based on some of the arguments made here. If you give the race flight as an action, double jump distance, and a permanent slow fall effect (as long as not restrained or incapacitated), I think that could work rather than a full out fly speed. Personally if done this way I don't think I would place limits on what kind of armor is being used. There are Eagles that can carrying 200 lb goats and drop them off cliffs. Fantasy can have Aarakocra wearing heavy armor and fly as an action.

 

[Charlaquin]

Well, as I've said earlier, unless the whole party has flying speed, those obstacles or gating tools as you've said are still going to be a problem.

Potentially, though there’s theoretically nothing stopping the whole party from playing flying races. And one flying character can still use it to sequence break if they’re willing to split the party - another thing I prefer to avoid where possible.

And besides, why do you even want a flying race if they don't really gain anything from it?

I agree, which is why I generally just outright ban flying races instead of nerfing them into uselessness. But if I had a player who absolutely insisted on playing an Aracokra or whatever, even if it meant having to play a nerfed version, then I’d either do it by adding a restriction like having to land at the end of the move, or by having it not kick in until 5th level when the Fly becomes available to other characters.

And also, the gating issue it really isn't such a big concern, is more a niche thing. If you believe that a hexcrawl would be "ruined" over a single character with flying capabilities, you are plain wrong. A single casting of a familiar spell (choosing an owl, eg) will grant you the same sky perspective also at will. And I've pointed several obstacles that make fly a non issue as well: strong winds pretty much locks down fly, and the lack of stealth makes flying a dangerous issue, for example.
Even more, from an exploration perspective, you aren't benefited by flying at all, such as when you are tracking creatures, or need to explore a forest (from above you only see trees). You could only spot general terrain features, such as landscape. The only constant benefit of flying is not being stopped by chasms when there is no wind. And then your party is still going to be stopped.

I don’t think a hexcrawl would be ruined by one character with flying, and scouting and tracking are very much not my problem with flying races. My issue is losing chasms, cliffs, and other obstacles that must be flown over or past as a gating mechanism. Without flying races, flight can be used as a “PCs must be at least level 5 to enter” checkpoint.

With all that said, if there is such obstacles that are automatically solved by having one character flying, please INCLUDE THEM. Don't punish character's because they chose a flying creature, let them think they have chosen something useful.

I don’t punish players for choosing flying races. I tell players “I often use gating to create a metroidvania style progression in my games, and the ability to fly is a key that can open a lot of gates. Accordingly, I don’t allow unrestricted flying before 5th level. If you really want to play a race with a fly speed for some reason other than its fly speed, I’m willing to work with you to come up with a restriction that will make it more appropriate for my games, but unrestricted flight is a hard no for me.”

 

[Erechel]

Potentially, though there’s theoretically nothing stopping the whole party from playing flying races. And one flying character can still use it to sequence break if they’re willing to split the party - another thing I prefer to avoid where possible.

If a character splits the party, you go with the usual result of horror movies. If an entire party choses flying characters, you have to think new ways to engage them besides chasms, such as "the magic sword is in the Peak of the Winds" or "there is a tower with sorcerors casting earthbind to any flying creature that pass by and master longbowmen". Suddenly, they can't go there flying unless they can somehow manipulate the winds or become invisible en masse.

Done and done.

Besides, if they only take the races because flying, they are going to be in a lot worse problems.

I agree, which is why I generally just outright ban flying races instead of nerfing them into uselessness. But if I had a player who absolutely insisted on playing an Aracokra or whatever, even if it meant having to play a nerfed version, then I’d either do it by adding a restriction like having to land at the end of the move, or by having it not kick in until 5th level when the Fly becomes available to other characters.

A I've said prior, I've DM'ed for two years parties with at least one stolasi (aaracockra reskin) per group, and has never being a problem. Rather, I've to struggle on how to make useful certain (useless) traits, such as Tinker, or entire skills such as Performance, or outright banning certain very common spells, such as Create & Destroy Water and Create Food and Water, that ruin entire adventures (like crossing scorching deserts without any meaningful impact on the game). Flying adds a new layer of possibilities, rather than shut down others.

I don’t think a hexcrawl would be ruined by one character with flying, and scouting and tracking are very much not my problem with flying races. My issue is losing chasms, cliffs, and other obstacles that must be flown over or past as a gating mechanism. Without flying races, flight can be used as a “PCs must be at least level 5 to enter” checkpoint.

If chasms and cliffs are your only concern, you can still make them count with strong winds or storms. Something that even has a lot of sense. Also in my experience, chasms and cliffs aren't gates at all: a creative player can bypass them with ease. Rope, stakes, and Athletics do the trick. My characters have made rope with jungle vines and tools. My players have constructed bridges with trees and ropes to cross chasms, or used Feather fall to reach the end and then scale it up with Mold Earth. At one point, a wizard used a cantrip to make an ice bridge over a river. They could get very creative. They don't see a gate as much as a challenge.

I don’t punish players for choosing flying races. I tell players “I often use gating to create a metroidvania style progression in my games, and the ability to fly is a key that can open a lot of gates. Accordingly, I don’t allow unrestricted flying before 5th level. If you really want to play a race with a fly speed for some reason other than its fly speed, I’m willing to work with you to come up with a restriction that will make it more appropriate for my games, but unrestricted flight is a hard no for me.”

As I've said prior, it isn't unrestricted flying. There are many, many restrictions to fly baked in, and I gave you a few more (exhaustion, food, encumbrance) that don't get ridiculous (such as having a culture of flying creatures incapable to fly until they reach a certain level in a class... those poor aaracockra farmers and hunters are land-locked forever). And the ones that I've provided apply also past level 5. Also, there is a lot of other gates you can apply: underwater exploration is one of my favourites. But also, well, actual gates.

 

[Sunseeker]

For me, the issue isn’t restricting flight in combat. As you observe, the DM has plenty of tools for dealing with that. For me, the problem with races that grant flying at level 1 is that it makes it so you can’t use flight as a gating tool. Normally, you can count on players not being able to bypass certain obstacles until certain levels, and use those obstacles to restrict areas in a dungeon-like or hexploration environment. Allowing flying races without a restriction like having to end their movement on the ground or fall means you can no longer count on a category of obstacles to work as effective gates.

Well, lets look at it this way: there are 2 primary flying @ level 1 races in 5E, variant tieflings and aaracoka (or however you spell that). They are both obscure races and do not appeal to a lot of players in the same way dwarves, elves, humans, half-elves, halflings or even half-orcs do.

Even at a 20 str, a flying creature is at best only going to be able to carry one other medium or smaller creature and only then if they are within the usual weight ranges and that's also when said flying creature is almost totally unencumbered.

Obstacles that require flight to access will still be obstacles. But lets face it, how severe are obstacles that require flight? A tall cliff? A tower with a door up top? A large chasm? At best, the flying character is going to be a scout, and maybe if they see things are all clear, a taxi for the rest of the party. And that's assuming that they maxed out strength. If they didn't, the party is still stuck with needing flight to access, and only one player is able to get across without it. This one player is essentially splitting themselves off from the party and making themselves a big obvious flying target for any enemy that may be hiding out in the place that requires flight to access. It means they will be isolated from the party if they need healing or other support, it could get them trapped.

The tradeoff for being able to jump over small obstacles at low levels is the increased risk of isolation on the other side. A giant bird-man is not a tiny spirte (which the wizard or any human who takes Magic Initiate feat for Find Familiar has), which is arguably much better for scouting than BirdMan.

Besides that, as pointed out in the post you quoted, the obstacle simply becomes the wind instead of the distance needed to cross with flight. Wind can be devastating even to non-flyers in canyons, cliffsides and exposed areas.

As a person who has run flying characters a lot, I'll break down some of my uses for it:
Flying up tall buildings/cliffs.
Scouting from really high up.
Flying over large canyons.
Generally being disgruntled when someone in the party asks for a lift.

It doesn't do me any good in dungeons, heights and holes are still a problem for me there. It doesn't do me any good in a building of any sort. A tight canopy of trees makes my life difficult as I can't fly up, and if I can get out, I can't shoot back down.

So, much like the dreaded Sniper feat, flying is really only a problem on the theoretical level in unlimited open spaces. As long as spaces are constrained by believable obstructions, flying is about as useful as having a spirte familiar.