D&D 3E/3.5 Fond Memories of ENWorld and the 3E Launch

[Kwalish Kid]

It's like waiting for the LOTR movies all over again!

Hopefully it's not like waiting for the D&D movie all over again!

 

[Jack99]

Hopefully it's not like waiting for the D&D movie all over again!

Every time that movie is mentioned, a kitten dies....

 

[Orcus]

Eric, you are right. The discontent is different this time. Last time, for 3E, it was all the other sites that were much "bigger" then than your site was at the time hating on 3E. I remember Cannonfire and all the other RPG sites ripping 3E and hating on it pretty hard. Your site (which is now ENWorld) was pretty much one the few places where you could go and be excited about 3E. Strangely, now that 4E is coming and ENWorld is a bastion of 3E, there is resistance HERE for the new rules set.

Kind of wierd when you think about it. I'm not sure that your original site was necessarily all hyped because it was 3E specifically that was coming out. I think you site was all hyped up because a NEW rules set was coming out. But now that I think about it, I guess I never really asked you why it was you made that site. Was it just that there were new rules for a game you loved? What was it?

Regardless, it is a bit ironic that ENWorld (an extension of the site you started) is now a place where you hear naysayers for 4E, when you consider the fact that this site was the cutting edge location for the newest rules for D&D. But I guess it has turned into a place for 3E uber alles. Strange. Very strange.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Clark

 

[EricNoah]

To me, the timing on 3rd edition was right on some fundamental level -- I could feel how scattered the rules for D&D had become (the great character customization stuff in Skills & Powers for example -- not necessarily great rules, but great ideas). I think I was also very curious to see what WotC (D&D's savior -- I was around in, what, '97 when TSR simply stopped publishing for several straight months with no explanation -- D&D was at death's door, folks!) could do with D&D if allowed to start from the ground up. I was curious to see what lessons could be learned from WotC's Alternity game. And I was curious to see what would happen to a game that was born in the Internet age. It all conspired to make for a very compelling situation that I wanted to stay on top of; and if I was going to be hunting around for clues and hints, I might as well post them somewhere central for all to enjoy.

The timing doesn't feel as right this time around, but you know what, who cares? No one should base their business plans around me or people like me. A new edition is at the very least academically interesting to me even if I am not planning on switching (there is still a lot of life left in 3E for me; I could run this game for the rest of my life on the stash of adventure material I have; and with the plethora of high-quality 3rd party materials, as I have said elsewhere, there has never been a better time not to switch editions).

I don't begrudge anyone the thrill of being here at the beginning and enjoying the anticipation. There are doubtless people who see this as the beginning of the end, but to me it's just a transition.

 

[DaveMage]

The timing doesn't feel as right this time around, but you know what, who cares? No one should base their business plans around me or people like me. A new edition is at the very least academically interesting to me even if I am not planning on switching (there is still a lot of life left in 3E for me; I could run this game for the rest of my life on the stash of adventure material I have; and with the plethora of high-quality 3rd party materials, as I have said elsewhere, there has never been a better time not to switch editions).

This sums up things for me pretty well, too, except that for some reason, I do care about it.

I wish I were more apathetic to the change, but after being an avid fan of whatever the current edition has been for 27 years, for some reason I'm just depressed by the whole thing.

Still, when we went through this 8 years ago for 3E, I remember the excitement as I checked the site each day for new cool updates. So for those of you who *are* welcoming 4E - enjoy the moment!

 

[Wystan]

Fourth Edition (What it means to me):

I have gamed since 1985, I was 12...I was on a youth group trip to Kentucky to assist people who were in need and I was the biggest P.I.T.A. kid I could have been. I was younger than all the others by 2 years or more, I had ADD and I was an attention seeker. I was told later by my friend and GM that the Youth Pastor had told him 'Try to be nice to him and include him in what you do...' This lead to Villains and Vigilantes, which led to AD&D, which led to Top Secret S/I, which led to various other role playing games. These taught me to seek the time and place for my acting, to know when it was my turn in the spotlight, and to relate to people better. Now I can say that I am a better person for Roleplaying.

I remember stumbling on Eric Noah's 3rd Edition News site and excitedly calling my Roleplaying buddies and telling them that a new version is coming down the pike...they were not as enthused as I was, but I decided to keep looking...they finally came to see that this was a good thing and even the AD&D grognard in our circle plays 3.5 now and will even GM it at times.

Now, a few weeks ago, news came out of 4th Edition...I am again interested and excited (ADD does do that as well... ) and wish to share it with my circle, to which I keep hearing the same thing I am hearing here more and more..."I have enough, let it go to those that feel they need it", well, here is a secret (free, from me to you)...

WE ALL NEED IT... New Players will play the New Edition... The longer we as a community Grognard and disdain the new edition, the less likely we are to assist the new Players learn and appreciate the game. Sure we can then show then BD&D and they will possibly love it too, but if we cannot go where they are, why the hell would they come to where we are hiding?

No matter who we are, or what we do...We need to be involved, we need competent GM's willing to show New Players the New Game Systems. We need experienced players that are willing to go the extra mile and play a First Level campaign module so that the New Players can see the story from the ground up... No matter how apathetic you are towards the new edition, you need to be involved. Every True Grognard hurts the new players when all they do is keep to the old version. (Even Piratecat with his disdain for 3.5 and his love for BD&D will play 3.5)...

I respect most of the people here, and those that I exclude is based on lack of knowledge and not based on dislike, but I feel that we are forgetting why we play and focusing way too much on what we play. How many here were less socially adept prior to roleplaying, less verbally capable? Help the New Players and help the game as a whole....

Learn and Teach 4th Edition to save the Hobby.


Thanks for letting me ramble....

Wystan
Bill C

 

[Gilwen]

I loved Eric's site. It came about at a time that I needed a change in my gaming table and I can say with out a doubt that site is what brought me back to DnD, and I would not have gave 3E the same benefit of the doubt if all of the news comign from that site wasn't making it's way to my desktop. I would literally spend hours reading the same stuff over and over and over to try and glean another nugget of information.

Gil

Eric,

So good to see you! I dont know if the current posters have any idea what a monumental task you had and what a great job you did. You were the only source of info for 3E. Now, WotC trickles it out, people have blogs, etc. You were, back in the day, the only source for 3E news and rumors.

And I agree with you. Kudos to Morrus and company.

I'll admit, the 4E talk has re-energized me again for D&D.

Clark

 

[Shade]

It will harken back to some classic adventures. It even steals a trick from the Hidden Shrine of Tomoachan, if you can believe it. Since Erik and I both feel a strong need to keep "our" D&D strongly tied to the traditions and references of the past versions of D&D and the shared history.

Bless you, Orcus. (Man, that sounds wrong.)

The (apparent based on previews) loss of the traditions and references to past editions are the very things that have cooled my enthusiasm for 4e.

Between this post and your posts regarding Tome of Horrors 4e, and your alliance with the equally history-friendly Paizo folks, I think I might hold out hope for enjoying 4e. And I know where I'll be spending my formerly-reserved-for-official-products gaming dollars.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

So it is totally unrealistic for people to compare the "need" from 2E to 3E with the need from 3E to 4E. The only reason that need was there was due to neglect.

This is your opinion, and I don't think it's as well-considered as you think it is.

TSR were not merely neglectful, they were downright failing. As Eric so correctly reminds us, they were about to go out of business. 2E's rules were so appalling that they could be considered neglected, but it was certainly a nice time for change. The real problem was that if they kept waiting, there wouldn't BE any D&D any more!

I know everyone on this board loves D&D, and assumes, because D&D takes up a huge amount of every FLGS in the known universe, that D&D is doing great financially, but that doesn't mean that situation, even if it's the case, will last forever. In the later days of WotC, my FLGS was stilled stuffed to the gunnels with AD&D products, the problem was, not enough people were buying them.

Presumably WotC, being a lot better at business, and more interested in making a profit that TSR, want to avoid this situation before it happens, not try to correct it afterwards. Thus better now, than in two-three years, when maybe WotC's RPG division profits are seriously going downhill, and where WotC might consider selling off the RPG division, or just outright canning it. I mean, I've heard all this "TSR waited ten years to publish 2E, and then it was ten years to 3E!", and whilst the symmetry is lovely and all, I don't think that's a good enough reason to wait longer.

Maybe this is why, for some, the timing doesn't feel right? Instead of being an attempt to save a game, this is merely an attempt to update and keep selling a game (something WW have been doing with success for years). Thus, it seems a little early for some.

I have to admit, I was here for really the whole of the 3E anticipation (as witnesses no doubt recall), and 3E didn't quite go as far as I wanted, or initially anticipated. Many of the ideas in 4E are ones people kicked around when 3E was anticipated, and it's nice to see them "finally making it". For me, if anything, I kinda wish it had come sooner

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

This is your opinion, and I don't think it's as well-considered as you think it is.

I think you guys are actually mostly agreeing.