Food and Water

[dcollins]

I must admit that I had to think about some things after a recent game of module WG6 (Isle of the Ape). In that you're stranded on a Lost World type island and running out of lots of equipment and resources as you try to explore a huge area.

It's funny, there was a great difference of opinion among my players, some got bored and others were really enthusiastic about the strong sense of place.

I think for long-term survival adventures I'd now lean toward generating very specific and easily communicated rules for the particular adventure. Much like a dungeon is set up: your choices are now left or right, which way do you go? Set the outdoor adventure as: you see a great chance of running out of food, do you hustle to a distant safe area, or go half-speed to forage?

Something along those lines -- the small-scale environmental rules in the DMG (heat/cold, hourly forced marches & random encounters, food/water) aren't necessarily gameplay balanced for a good gaming experience. Worst-case example: the old 1st Ed. Wilderness Survival Guide which pretty much ruined one of my AD&D campaigns it was so bad.

 

[Christian]

Thanks, dcollins. I did manage to refresh my memory (thanks to google) that a gallon of water weighs a little over 8 pounds, and thought it was strange that a waterskin is listed at 4 pounds. Seems inefficient for adventurers to need to stop and refill their waterskins twice per day.

I'm already being anal enough about this in my WLD game, so I'm just going to assume that a waterskin holds a day's worth of water.

You know, it was my recollection (although I can't seem to find the cite now) that a waterskin for a medium-sized creature holds one gallon. It would weigh about eight pounds full, virtually nothing empty, and on average, over the course of a day, four pounds (as it is alternately filled and depleted).

 

[the Jester]

Trail rations for small characters weigh only 1/4 of a pound, interestingly enough. By the RAW that means they need to eat two of them per day. I think someone screwed up.

Well, you know how halflings eat.

 

[howandwhy99]

Plus, there is not much treasure in the early regions of WLD, especially in Region A. This way the players are reminded of the value of even the most mundane items.

I've looked at the 'trapped w/o food or water' scenario a few times now. (for various nefarious reasons) At first I thought with Create Water at 0-level for both Cleric and Druid dehydration would never be a problem, but that's wrong. At 1st level 0-level spells are still potent. So using them all on water is a burden. Plus, in very hot environments (like a desert) you need 3 times your normal supply of water, so death from dehydration is a very real possibility.

Food is not nearly as important to have as water. But trapped in a dungeon with mainly intelligent creatures cannibalism is going to be touched upon even if it isn't the only option. If you don't want this in your game, I think normal food sources will need to be added. WLD specifically said it does not take into account certain environmental factors such as food and drink for the inhabitants. If you enforce this on the PCs, they will be looking for how their enemies solve the same puzzle.

Food is picked up spell-wise at 3rd level (create food and water) for clerics and 1st (goodberry) for druids. I would still enforce the desert requirements, if applicable. So one casting of these spells will not always be enough.

I like your idea of keeping track of food and water in WLD. It adds some needed realism. But I would definitely include (look around for) a sustainable environment. Otherwise the problem your presenting can only be solved via levelling (spell power), which is a little metagamey.

 

[Bauglir]

I've got to side with JGS. There are better things to do in the WLD than hunt and peck for food and water. That being said, the search for reliable supplies of of food and drink makes for an excellent "encounter" early on and adds to feelings of being trapped. Later in the dungeon, you could mention that certain techniques are no longer working, or that the food caches have become more few and far between. Nothing makes good roleplayers take a risk than the gnawing of hunger or thirst (i.e., there's a well in such and such a room but it is being guarded by your worst nightmare, because, get this, YWN also needs to drink).

This seems like an excellent opportunity to insert Orc & Pie into your game, don't you think?

 

[JoeBlank]

I've looked at the 'trapped w/o food or water' scenario a few times now. (for various nefarious reasons) At first I thought with Create Water at 0-level for both Cleric and Druid dehydration would never be a problem, but that's wrong. At 1st level 0-level spells are still potent. So using them all on water is a burden. Plus, in very hot environments (like a desert) you need 3 times your normal supply of water, so death from dehydration is a very real possibility.

Almost forgot: the orc and pie idea is great! Talk about motivation, the pie becomes an even greater prize when you are starving!
Food is not nearly as important to have as water. But trapped in a dungeon with mainly intelligent creatures cannibalism is going to be touched upon even if it isn't the only option. If you don't want this in your game, I think normal food sources will need to be added. WLD specifically said it does not take into account certain environmental factors such as food and drink for the inhabitants. If you enforce this on the PCs, they will be looking for how their enemies solve the same puzzle.

Food is picked up spell-wise at 3rd level (create food and water) for clerics and 1st (goodberry) for druids. I would still enforce the desert requirements, if applicable. So one casting of these spells will not always be enough.

I like your idea of keeping track of food and water in WLD. It adds some needed realism. But I would definitely include (look around for) a sustainable environment. Otherwise the problem your presenting can only be solved via levelling (spell power), which is a little metagamey.

The PCs should find a source of water within the first few sessions of play, and they can keep returning to that source at least until they complete Region A. By then, they could start using the cleric's create water spell every couple of days.

Good point on the cannibalism. I'll be sure to throw in a few extra unintelligent creatures if the picking get slim. Also, there are a few outdoors-like areas scattered about, so I'll be sure to include some berries and other foodstuffs there.

And of course, it is all about the fun. If this becomes not fun to the players then I'll be sure to to find a way to move past it.

Thanks again for all the great input.

 

[DaveMage]

I think I'd put the WLD on a demiplane (albeit linked very strongly to the material plane) where there's no need for food or water (kind of like the Astral Plane, IIRC).

 

[Kemrain]

Oh, I'm having flashbacks to my youth playing Ultima Underworld... Good times.. while you're in the dungeon, make sure you save your soup for trolls, find the threads of Narvey Nighteyes, and remember your mantras. Important, important..

- Kemrain the Avatar.

 

[Thunderfoot]

You know, it was my recollection (although I can't seem to find the cite now) that a waterskin for a medium-sized creature holds one gallon. It would weigh about eight pounds full, virtually nothing empty, and on average, over the course of a day, four pounds (as it is alternately filled and depleted).

I don't see it (not that your math is flawed) but a one-gallon waterskin? Go to your refridgerator, pull out the lightweigth 1-gallon plastic milk container and fill that with water. That's a very large and heavy canteen there. Now, make it out of treated leather and add some wooden fittings and a hemp or leather carry strap. No, I think 4 pounds (i.e. a half gallon) for a waterskin is just about right. As far as efficient; most canteens/Nalgenes/water bottles today only carry a Liter/Quart: that's 8 fill-ups (or 4 if you carry two which is what I do.)

I'm an avid backpacker with several hundred miles under my belt. And if you want to know why there are encumbrance rules, put on a 30lb pack (most people would pack far heavier) and walk up a 2 mile slope with a 500 ft altitude gain. I guarantee you're gonna feel it. Now think about adding, armor, weapons, extra adventuring items and add some nice exerting combat to the mix. If we were going for realism, the average adventurer would hike about 3 - 5 miles a day, eat 4 meals at about 8000 calories and consume 2-4 gallons of water just to maintain body weight and vitality. With combat averaging 2 fights per day - the average adventure would be expelling about 6500 - 10000 calories a day and running through half their body weight in water.

I realize people are going to question those calorie counts but trust me - the average backpacker expends about 4000. By comparison the average person should consume between 1500 - 2000 depending upon how active they are. A MRE (Meal Ready to Eat) used by our military in the field has 3000 - 5000 calories PER MEAL.

So as for me - 1 pound of food and a gallon of water suit me just fine. Though they rules don't add realism, it is after all a FANTASY role playing game.

But of course, that's just my two coppers