Footwork Lure + Polearm Momentum = At-Will Knock Prone?

[Ibixat]

I fired up my Elven glaive user last night and I ran into a few problems.

Stat wise I went with
Str 16
Con 15
Dex 15
Int 8
Wis 15
Cha 10

maybe I should have gone for 18 strength and 10 con, but as a fighter I am not sure how I'd feel about 10 con. Maybe if I took a home region that allowed me to use Wis for hp instead of con, but I'd still be short on surges that way.

Was playing in an RPGA game and we did play high tier, so I was basically useless, I couldn't hit a damn thing, not that it would have been much better at low tier even with an extra +1. The problem was that everything I had targeted AC and the stuff we were fighting was all 20-23 ac, I think it would have only been 18-21 at low tier but still it was pretty harsh, with my total +5 to attacks, at least on OA's I had +7. I was able to get bonuses a few times or flanking but we had no rogue for me to flank buddy up with, and when I did hit the combo was pretty cool. I think a lower con would have made being a battlerager pointless, which I'm actually thinking is pointless for me to begin with, though the temp HP were too tempting to ignore at first, they did save me a few times too as well, getting con mod temps every time you take melee damage is a fairly decent thing, though I think the +1 to hit from great weapon fighter may have been more helpfull. Since we played high tier I did get a suit of +2 dwarven chainmail (finemail actually) but by rpga rules I gotta wait till 3rd to be able to equip it.

I think the character has some potential, and will start to do better once I get him some magic and play something closer to the proper level range, a level 1 on a high tier 1-4 band mod really is going to suck unless they are a rogue who has like +9 attack bonus at level 1 and can attack something other than AC.

 

[teruokun]

Combine with a polearm tactical warlord

My friend and I are playing a polearm duo that trained together and have ended up with a pretty fun combo (both lvl 12, using a glaive, heavy blade opportunity, polearm gambit, my character with polearm master path). The strategy involves my character (elven great weapon fighter) always trying to stay adjacent to his character (eladrin tactical warlord).

1) If an enemy runs up adjacent to me (or both): Polearm gambit -> footwork lure (swipe)-> I shift to another square adjacent to the warlord, enemy is slid next to warlord -> warlord's polearm gambit -> opening shove -> enemy knocked away and now prone with the most it can do is get up (without an AP) -> I get another swipe at something in range.
2) If an enemy runs up to attack the warlord and not adjacent to me: Polearm gambit -> opening shove (with rushing cleats and a controlling halberd) -> enemy knocked away and prone with the most it can do is get up (without an AP) and if anything is within range of me, I swipe (2d4+10).

Because we have a small party (us and an artful dodger), this kind of auto-knocking prone plus the addition of granting melee combat advantage versus for our rogue is a nice plus.

This was just what we were going to try for so far and we honestly weren't trying to minmax a lot, we just ended up seeing these feats and abilities and thought it would be a fun way to use polearm tactics while playing with a small group.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It really depends on how you interpret when Polearm Gambit kicks in. The feat itself states that it triggers when an opponent entersan adjacent square, not when an opponent leaves as square. To be entering a new square, the opponent would have to have already, then, left a previous square. Even though OA's are essential interupts, I'd argue that the opponent is thus no longer two squares away when you use Footwork Lure as there is no such thing as being "in-between" squares in 4th Ed.

Like you say, there's no such thing as being in between squares.

The trigger for the opportunity attack is "opponent enters an adjacent square". An opportunity action interrupts the triggering action - it occurs before the triggering action resolves. So the attack happens before "opponent enters an adjacent square" resolves; he has not yet finished entering the adjacent square, and since there is no such thing as being in between squares, until he finishes entering the adjacent square, he is two squares away.

At the time the OA occurs, the opponent is two squares away.

-Hyp.

 

[Bagpuss]

The real power of this combo is when you combine it with a Glaive, HBO, Polearm Gambit, and Trickster's Blade Style. With this, you can slide your target 2 and knock it prone when they trigger Polearm Gambit! This can potentially make you ubersticky and incredibly annoying to enemies that decide to close with you (which they will since you were smart and took Daunting Challenge, right?).

Do you mean Polearm Gamble?

Since you would be using Footwork Lure on your turn you can't use Polearm Gamble when you shift them close to you as it grants an Opportunity Attack, and you can't take them on your own turn.

Unless Tricker's Blade Style lets you make Opportunity Attacks in your own turn (I don't have the text for that).

 

[Bond James Bond]

And being knocked prone isn't that bad really... more close to inconvenient.

But getting up from prone still costs you your movement action, or did I miss something?

Thus by knocking sombody prone, and making sure that nobody is in range for a charge you deny him all melee attack options. He can get up, and that`s about it. Turn lost.

Now, for your average soldier or brute without a viabale range attack this is huge. Even if he still can charge somebody, it seriously hurts his attack options.

To me, knocking someone prone with an at will and two feats is just not balanced at all.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

But getting up from prone still costs you your movement action, or did I miss something?

Thus by knocking sombody prone, and making sure that nobody is in range for a charge you deny him all melee attack options. He can get up, and that`s about it. Turn lost.

Now, for your average soldier or brute without a viabale range attack this is huge. Even if he still can charge somebody, it seriously hurts his attack options.

To me, knocking someone prone with an at will and two feats is just not balanced at all.

Except using this combination, the enemy ALWAYS ends up prone next to you, since you slide them into the space you just shifted out of. So they spend a move action to get up then a standard action hitting you. All you manage to do is prevent the enemy from attacking anyone except you. Which is a pretty good method of being a defender.

 

[Bagpuss]

To me, knocking someone prone with an at will and two feats is just not balanced at all.

It's one feat. Oh and crippling your primary attack stat or waiting until Paragon/Epic levels.

 

[Diirk]

Except using this combination, the enemy ALWAYS ends up prone next to you, since you slide them into the space you just shifted out of. So they spend a move action to get up then a standard action hitting you. All you manage to do is prevent the enemy from attacking anyone except you. Which is a pretty good method of being a defender.

Unless you say, shift 1 square as a move action after using footwork lure. Just a radical thought.

 

[Ibixat]

Unless you say, shift 1 square as a move action after using footwork lure. Just a radical thought.

If you shift from them they will stand up and probably charge someone else in your party making the tactic less than sticky.

 

[Mistwell]

It really depends on how you interpret when Polearm Gambit kicks in. The feat itself states that it triggers when an opponent entersan adjacent square, not when an opponent leaves as square. To be entering a new square, the opponent would have to have already, then, left a previous square. Even though OA's are essential interupts, I'd argue that the opponent is thus no longer two squares away when you use Footwork Lure as there is no such thing as being "in-between" squares in 4th Ed. By entering the adjacent square, the opponent is no longer in the non-adjacent square anymore when the OA triggers. Furthermore, nothing in the above combo is going to stop the opponent from entering the adjacent square and without Trickster's Blade, you will only be sliding the opponent 1 square.

Now, if Polearm Gambit triggered when the opponent left its square, then I'd be inclined to agree with you as the opponent would still be 2 squares away when the OA hit.

Still, as I said, it depends on how PG is interpreted and if you're group plays it differently, then you get to save a feat and some MAD!

As for glaive v. greatspear, being an elf mitigates that +1 loss and since this combo works as an OA, getting Wis to hit more than makes up for it. If you want to prioritize damage, make sure to be a Pit Fighter and pick up Marked Scourge for 2xWis to damage. Heck, be Dragonborn to grab Draconic Arrogance for another +Str to damage and multiclass Ranger for Master of the Hunt for another +Wis to damage. Suddenly Footwork Lure 2d8+2xStr+3xWis and knocks prone even before figuring in magic items. That'll teach badguys to come near you!

FAQ resolves this question now:

http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/...p?p_faqid=1396

27. Where is the target of your attack when you make an opportunity attack because of Polearm gamble?

An opportunity attack interrupts the action that triggers it, so when you make the opportunity attack, the target is in the square it's leaving, assuming that square is within your melee reach.