Footwork Lure + Polearm Momentum = At-Will Knock Prone?

[Danceofmasks]

Knocking 'em prone is meh ... knocking 'em prone after sliding 'em 2 squares is absolutely fantastic.

Too bad it has to be a polearm or spear ... if you could do it with a whip or somesuch, you could yell out "get over here!"
ahem.

 

[Ibixat]

Knocking 'em prone is meh ... knocking 'em prone after sliding 'em 2 squares is absolutely fantastic.

Too bad it has to be a polearm or spear ... if you could do it with a whip or somesuch, you could yell out "get over here!"
ahem.

I'm not even looking at it as being really all that super powerful of a character build, I'm hoping it's fun is all, I think I am going to be playing it today though, we are playing 3 sets today and my cleric can only fit in 1 before he gets too high to run through FR1 which we are using him in, and my rogue, well I want to at least try something new, the rogue is just made of fun, and two fisted shooter feat just makes me giggle. Drow rogue with a D8 Damage offhand one handed free-load crossbow that gets a free non OA provoking ranged attack any time I crit with either weapon I carry.

 

[Cryptos]

I'll tell you how it plays out, I may actually play this build today, I'm not sure if it should be a battlerager or great weapon fighter build though, I think battlerager allows for the change to spear and shield at later levels while using glaive at first level. Though to be fair I may stick with glaive because of the awesome that HBO becomes with push 2 knockdown as part of it. It brings some new meaning to sticky when you can OA and force prone.

I was considering Battle Rager, but went with Two-Handed Weapon specialty for the +1 to hit because of the high stat requirements.

I already had a plan to make an Elf polearm fighter, who was once part of a group of elvish defenders using leafblade-shaped glaives to defend eleven settlements. The desire to check out this combo at lower level just caused me to dump 13s into Wis and Dex instead of 12s. From there, Dex and Wis should be high enough to let them ride on the +1 to all increases and provide good bonuses for secondary effects, skills, and so forth; and assigned stat increases can make up for lower initial STR and CON.

The stat requirements make it a concept that probably isn't very good for standard meat-shielding. But my thinking is that a fighter like this would position themselves well in front of the more tempting but squishy targets in a party, catching and dragging foes back who run past to attack, say, a wizard character. I'm also interested in including plenty of mobility so that a character like this could shift around the battlefield with a rogue waiting in the wings. Footwork Lure's movement alone helps create flanking opportunities, knocking them prone goes further to ensure CA, and make it hard for an enemy to get out of CA.

It will involve a lot of shifting powers, and some that allow the fighter to take advantage of CA or flanking, as well, with some minion-sweeping elements. Then as a rogue moves safely across the battlefield, they have a fighter that can safely keep up.

 

[Rechan]

With the recent article for Polearm warlords, it isn't a bad option for a Warlord to take. Also, with Opening Shove, you push a target 1 square; it's acquirable.

 

[kerbarian]

And being knocked prone isn't that bad really... more close to inconvenient.

If you knock a melee combatant prone two squares away from the nearest enemy, it's almost as good as a stun. They can stand up, but then they're too far away to attack and too close to charge. They do have the option to charge past the nearest enemy to someone else, but if that nearest enemy is a fighter, they'll probably take an OA and be stopped in their tracks.

It's unfortunate that this combo always results in the prone enemy being adjacent to you, since that's not nearly as debilitating. If you start your turn in position to use the footwork lure, though, you could pull the enemy, knock him prone, and then shift away.

 

[kerbarian]

A staggering weapon would be easy to get too at lower level, but it only affects slides

I'm not sure what happens when you add a square to a power that slides a target to a specific destination (the space you left), rather than a number of squares. I don't think it would do anything.

Also, exactly how flexible is "slide the target into the space you left"? Say you're attacking with a reach weapon over a line of allies. Can you then slide the target several squares, around the end of the line of allies, into the square you left? It doesn't make sense, but it appears to be legal by the RAW.

If you're fighting a large or larger enemy, can you slide him extra squares to get a different part of him into the space you left (rather than the nearest square of him)?

Both of those issues would be solved if Footwork Lure were pull rather than slide. I can't think of a good reason for it to be slide other than to allow it to work with Polearm Momentum.

 

[Danceofmasks]

The reason for it to be a slide is:

You could decide to shift forwards, and then pull wouldn't be legal to force yer target into the square you left.

 

[muchan]

The real power of this combo is when you combine it with a Glaive, HBO, Polearm Gambit, and Trickster's Blade Style. With this, you can slide your target 2 and knock it prone when they trigger Polearm Gambit! This can potentially make you ubersticky and incredibly annoying to enemies that decide to close with you (which they will since you were smart and took Daunting Challenge, right?).

 

[kerbarian]

The real power of this combo is when you combine it with a Glaive, HBO, Polearm Gambit, and Trickster's Blade Style. With this, you can slide your target 2 and knock it prone when they trigger Polearm Gambit! This can potentially make you ubersticky and incredibly annoying to enemies that decide to close with you (which they will since you were smart and took Daunting Challenge, right?).

I don't think you need Trickster's Blade, since the OA happens before the movement that triggers it -- when the enemy is still two squares away.

That is a pretty amazing combo -- I just hate giving up the greatspear for a glaive, since you lose +1 to hit and Rain of Blows.

 

[muchan]

I don't think you need Trickster's Blade, since the OA happens before the movement that triggers it -- when the enemy is still two squares away.

That is a pretty amazing combo -- I just hate giving up the greatspear for a glaive, since you lose +1 to hit and Rain of Blows.

It really depends on how you interpret when Polearm Gambit kicks in. The feat itself states that it triggers when an opponent entersan adjacent square, not when an opponent leaves as square. To be entering a new square, the opponent would have to have already, then, left a previous square. Even though OA's are essential interupts, I'd argue that the opponent is thus no longer two squares away when you use Footwork Lure as there is no such thing as being "in-between" squares in 4th Ed. By entering the adjacent square, the opponent is no longer in the non-adjacent square anymore when the OA triggers. Furthermore, nothing in the above combo is going to stop the opponent from entering the adjacent square and without Trickster's Blade, you will only be sliding the opponent 1 square.

Now, if Polearm Gambit triggered when the opponent left its square, then I'd be inclined to agree with you as the opponent would still be 2 squares away when the OA hit.

Still, as I said, it depends on how PG is interpreted and if you're group plays it differently, then you get to save a feat and some MAD!

As for glaive v. greatspear, being an elf mitigates that +1 loss and since this combo works as an OA, getting Wis to hit more than makes up for it. If you want to prioritize damage, make sure to be a Pit Fighter and pick up Marked Scourge for 2xWis to damage. Heck, be Dragonborn to grab Draconic Arrogance for another +Str to damage and multiclass Ranger for Master of the Hunt for another +Wis to damage. Suddenly Footwork Lure 2d8+2xStr+3xWis and knocks prone even before figuring in magic items. That'll teach badguys to come near you!