D&D General [+] For (hypothetical) 6e: Which arcane caster class should be the "simple" one?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

One thing to keep in mind is that a "simple caster" does not need to have the breadth of options a complex caster has. In fact, that would be counter-productive, the breadth is part of the complexity.

The goal is to have a way to play the narrative role of someone that uses magic for his purpose.

A complex Wizard might cast "Knock" to open a locked chest and the "Jump" spell (or the fly spell) to get around a chasm and Charm Person to get a guard to look the other way.
A "simple" Arcanaist might spend their mana token for "Arcana Aid" or spend a short rest to refocus his "Arcane Insights" and gets to use their Intelligence instead of Dexterity for a Dexterity (Thief's Tool Kit) check or Strength (Athletics) check or Charisma (Persuasion) (or gets proficiency, or gets advantage, or a combination of them).

 

[jmartkdr2]

if you wanted a resourceless caster, would you be able to give them anything other than cantrips and ritual spells? expertise i guess, it's not explicitly a caster trait specifically but applied in the right way can be applicable.

Invocation-like features that grant resourceless use of low-levelspells and similar abilities.

I assure you, at-will detect magic will not break your game.

 

[CreamCloud0]

The original 3.5 warlock would be the best way to handle a simple caster. One specific spell/power (Eldritch blast) that you can modify and a few minor magical tricks to provide defense and support abilities. A magical ranged version of the sneak attack rogue. IMHO, 5e messed up that simplicity by both making warlocks actual casters and then giving them the only weird caster progression in the game. What should be a simple "magical" character ends up needing advanced knowledge of builds (gish vs caster vs pet), spell scaling (or why shield is a bad warlock spell) and casting with no transferable knowledge to any of the other casters in the game. The warlock is simple to play but complicated to build, hence making it no better than any other spellcaster.

i don't think what they chose to do to warlock in 5e was a mistake, honestly i think they ought to of made more of the casters with 'weird progression' rather than having them all as standardized as they are, different progressions don't add as much complexity as people seem to think they would, and as i have mentioned previously in the thread, i don't think there ought to be any single assigned simple caster but rather subclasses throughout the casters that offer simpler playstyles.

 

[Yaarel]

Invocation-like features that grant resourceless use of low-levelspells and similar abilities.

I assure you, at-will detect magic will not break your game.

Also, always-on Mage Armor cantrip,
at-will Waterbreathing cantrip,
Darkvision cantrip,
a flight cantrip that scales from balanced at level 1 (requiring an Action to move) upto fast true flight speed with hover at level 13,

many features dont need to be baggaged by resource management.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Also, always-on Mage Armor cantrip,
at-will Waterbreathing cantrip,
Darkvision cantrip,
a flight cantrip that scales from balanced at level 1 (requiring an Action to move) upto fast true flight speed with hover at level 13,

many features dont need to be baggaged by resource management.

passive mage armour
waterbreathing
darkvision
scaling flight

many features don't need to be baggaged by being made into cantrips either, especially if they're intended to be always be accessible or even inherent to the character, turning them into cantrips when they're already unlimited is just adding unnecessary extra steps.

 

[Yaarel]

passive mage armour
waterbreathing
darkvision
scaling flight

many features don't need to be baggaged by being made into cantrips either, especially if they're intended to be always be accessible or even inherent to the character, turning them into cantrips when they're already unlimited is just adding unnecessary extra steps.

Many character concepts rely on these - flight, body armor, etcetera.

There is no need to tangle up these basic features with immobile, fiddly, junk.

Any concept that needs these features can these, easily as cantrips.

 

[Zardnaar]

Simple caster coukd stll cast spells. Just have fixed ones that vary by subclass. Cantrips hit harder probably caster stat and +1 dice.

#of proficiency per day. Caster cantrip as a bonus action.

Lvl 1 and 2 spell become at will at some point. Can be a curated one so no at will shield.

Potential subclasses. Elementalist, war/force mage, beguiler one more.

Probably make it an intelligence caster and short rest based.

Level 3. Extra 1st level spell (eg star druids guiding bolt for inspiration).

Level 5 intelligence to damage
7. + 1 dice cantrip damage.

Lvl 6. Lvl 3 spell 1/short rest (determined by subclass or small curated list)

Lvl 11. Cantrip damage upgrade. Potentially 5d10+5 fireball. 32.5 average. Still low vs a martial. Paladins Potentially 3 or 4 attacks 1d6+5+1d10 (28 without trying hard theres more to pile on though).

Probably added rider effects atlas battlemaster maybe. Perhaps fixed or determined by subclass.

 

[Lanefan]

passive mage armour
waterbreathing
darkvision
scaling flight

many features don't need to be baggaged by being made into cantrips either, especially if they're intended to be always be accessible or even inherent to the character, turning them into cantrips when they're already unlimited is just adding unnecessary extra steps.

Always-on waterbreathing and flight seems a bit much, particularly at low-mid level, in terms of how easily it negates some common adventure challenges.

Always-on mage armour, sure.

Always-on night vision? Meh, there's too much of that going around already, does the game really need more?

 

[jmartkdr2]

Always-on waterbreathing and flight seems a bit much, particularly at low-mid level, in terms of how easily it negates some common adventure challenges.

Definitely want to level-lock those, although what level depends a lot on the edition.

Always-on mage armour, sure.

Always-on night vision? Meh, there's too much of that going around already, does the game really need more?

At this point it's more of a feat tax for humans and halflings.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Always-on waterbreathing and flight seems a bit much, particularly at low-mid level, in terms of how easily it negates some common adventure challenges.

Always-on mage armour, sure.

Always-on night vision? Meh, there's too much of that going around already, does the game really need more?

i mean, if you can cast it as a cantrip whenever you like like yarrel was suggesting i don't really see the difference between just having it active permanently

and there's a reason i specifically said scaling flight, i don't imagine you're getting a full permanent 30ft flyspeed off the bat.

edit, and as mentioned in the above post, some of these could be level locked.