For Nail - The Psion

[Scion]

I'd disagree with that conclusion.

Since I guess this is some strange amalgamation thread about the psion I'll ask the question, why?

I'll post a bit here, you can post why you disagree with the conclusion and/or about the parts as you like of course.

hd: d8 vs d4
BAB: Medium vs Poor
Saves 2 good vs 1 good
Proficiencies: all simple weapons, all armors, all shields but tower vs 6 simple
Spells/powers: full access of total list vs small subsection of list
The psion also has: 5 bonus feats and a discipline (the discipline can be looked at two ways, either it opens up powers that were not accessible before or it makes you choose which small subset of a secondary list you will be able to choose from)
The cleric also has: turn undead, 2 domain powers, 2 domain spell lists (can be looked at as above, but double, and they get all of them so they dont have to choose a limited number of them, but they cant use their normal slots to cast them generally), much higher spell point equivalency, spontaneous healing/inflicting, and some extra bonus languages.

So, since the cleric is majorly ahead in base you must mean in some comparison of powers vs spells. Are the psion powers so very much better than the clerics to make up for the above? If so, how?

Edit: I just counted. The cleric, if you count his level 0 and level 1 spells, has more total choices than a level 20 psion. (12 0th, 25 1st = 37 total, add in that domains might give 2 more that is up to 39, vs a 20th level psions 36, and this is with zero splat books) I thought it was interesting

 

[green slime]

Since I guess this is some strange amalgamation thread about the psion I'll ask the question, why?

I'll post a bit here, you can post why you disagree with the conclusion and/or about the parts as you like of course.

hd: d8 vs d4
BAB: Medium vs Poor
Saves 2 good vs 1 good
Proficiencies: all simple weapons, all armors, all shields but tower vs 6 simple
Spells/powers: full access of total list vs small subsection of list
The psion also has: 5 bonus feats and a discipline (the discipline can be looked at two ways, either it opens up powers that were not accessible before or it makes you choose which small subset of a secondary list you will be able to choose from)
The cleric also has: turn undead, 2 domain powers, 2 domain spell lists (can be looked at as above, but double, and they get all of them so they dont have to choose a limited number of them, but they cant use their normal slots to cast them generally), much higher spell point equivalency, spontaneous healing/inflicting, and some extra bonus languages.

So, since the cleric is majorly ahead in base you must mean in some comparison of powers vs spells. Are the psion powers so very much better than the clerics to make up for the above? If so, how?

Edit: I just counted. The cleric, if you count his level 0 and level 1 spells, has more total choices than a level 20 psion. (12 0th, 25 1st = 37 total, add in that domains might give 2 more that is up to 39, vs a 20th level psions 36, and this is with zero splat books) I thought it was interesting

I'm not going to state why I disagree with your position, as you have already made up your mind, and I mine.

Just quite plainly, I do not think psions need a "major boost", at all, in comparission with either the cleric or the druid.

 

[green slime]

That depends on what your definition of "is" is.

Well, thanks. That will surely lead the discussion forward. As opposed to asking for more qualifiers in order to obtain a more objective yardstick.

I guess now you know why I won't participate in this pointless debate further.

 

[A Man In Black]

I'm not going to state why I disagree with your position, as you have already made up your mind, and I mine.

Just quite plainly, I do not think psions need a "major boost", at all, in comparission with either the cleric or the druid.

Care to explain it for the rest of us?