D&D 1E [For ORCUS] Convince me that I can "do 1E" with 4E

[Philotomy Jurament]

But, if you really want 1E feel, you gotta go get our City of Brass boxed set. It may be the most 1E thing ever. Seriously. The guys on Cannonfire are loving it. That is when you know you have done it right

I'm going to pick this one up. I find converting from d20 annoying, but I'll still do it, for some products.

 

[Treebore]

I'm going to pick this one up. I find converting from d20 annoying, but I'll still do it, for some products.

City of Brass screams "classic", "1E feel", and "done so darn well you might want to cry".

Get it while you can, its frickin awesome!

 

[Delta]

My current analogy is that the evolution of D&D rulesets is like a swinging pendulum, with OD&D/1E AD&D basically in the middle "stock D&D" position.

For some reason, 2E was determined to push it far to the left, to get rid of a lot of mechanical crunch and tactical emphasis. 3E swung it back very close to the central edition nigh-1E. With 3.5 it over-swung off to the right, and 4E is the far culmination, with a total focus on replacing the crunch with totally new mechanics and tactics.

So, I've loved the Necromancer "3E rules, 1E feel" stuff, and they've done all of it extremely well. But I'll be astonished if you can do the same thing in a context where 1st level characters no longer have 1 HD, wizards no longer prepare daily spell slots, monster have been Mearls-ified, etc.

 

[Mouseferatu]

My current analogy is that the evolution of D&D rulesets is like a swinging pendulum, with OD&D/1E AD&D basically in the middle "stock D&D" position.

For some reason, 2E was determined to push it far to the left, to get rid of a lot of mechanical crunch and tactical emphasis. 3E swung it back very close to the central edition nigh-1E. With 3.5 it over-swung off to the right, and 4E is the far culmination, with a total focus on replacing the crunch with totally new mechanics and tactics.

And this right here is the perfect example of how two people can see the same thing in two totally different ways.

I see both 3E and 3.5 as being much farther to the right, and 4E (from what we've heard so far, which is admittedly not much) pushing it somewhat back more toward center. Sure, the mechanics are different, but in terms of overall balance between flavor and crunch, what I've heard of 4E sounds more like 1E than 3E did.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I see both 3E and 3.5 as being much farther to the right, and 4E (from what we've heard so far, which is admittedly not much) pushing it somewhat back more toward center. Sure, the mechanics are different, but in terms of overall balance between flavor and crunch, what I've heard of 4E sounds more like 1E than 3E did.

Yeah, I agree with you, Ari. If 1st Edition was the base position and right is more mechanics and tactics and left is more fluff then 2nd Edition was only slightly to the left and 3E and 3.5 were dramatically to the right and 4th Ed is slightly closer to the middle again.

I admit that 3E and 3.5 may have gone too far to the right and a movement back to more flavor and role playing behind the mechanics may be necessary.

 

[WhatGravitas]

I see both 3E and 3.5 as being much farther to the right, and 4E (from what we've heard so far, which is admittedly not much) pushing it somewhat back more toward center. Sure, the mechanics are different, but in terms of overall balance between flavor and crunch, what I've heard of 4E sounds more like 1E than 3E did.

The very same here! In the 3.x MM, most monsters have close to no fluff. Compare with the stuff, we already know about 4E. And James Wyatt as Story lead. We get much more fluff and theme, this time.

And the emphasis on streamlined rules are more rules-intensive for the developers and us now, but in play, it will be much less rules-intensive (at least from my interpretation of "streamlined").

Cheers, LT.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Old school feel = balrog PCs

 

[MerricB]

The very same here! In the 3.x MM, most monsters have close to no fluff. Compare with the stuff, we already know about 4E. And James Wyatt as Story lead. We get much more fluff and theme, this time.

It's really worth noting that there wasn't really much fluff in 1e; however, you could make a lot out of the one paragraph of info that there was there because it was really evocative writing.

Cheers!

 

[Reynard]

And this right here is the perfect example of how two people can see the same thing in two totally different ways.

I see both 3E and 3.5 as being much farther to the right, and 4E (from what we've heard so far, which is admittedly not much) pushing it somewhat back more toward center. Sure, the mechanics are different, but in terms of overall balance between flavor and crunch, what I've heard of 4E sounds more like 1E than 3E did.

The issue isn't fluff vs. crunch at all, at least insofar as I am concerned. The issue is whether the "different" mechanics fundamentally alter the way the game is played, whether killing every sacred cow they can get their hands on makes it something besides D&D.

 

[Mouseferatu]

The issue isn't fluff vs. crunch at all, at least insofar as I am concerned.

Well, sure, that's not the only measure, or even the most important one. But it was the one being discussed in the post I addressed.

The issue is whether the "different" mechanics fundamentally alter the way the game is played, whether killing every sacred cow they can get their hands on makes it something besides D&D.

All fair points. My own personal answers--based solely on what we know so far, which again isn't much--are:

"Yes, but not too substantially, and mostly in positive ways," and (with apologies to Billy Joel)

"Hot funk, cool punk, even if it's old junk, it's still D&D to me."