A. "The Dragonborn." I'm using this as a synecdoche for the larger issue, but for whatever reason, whenever Greyhawk comes up, there is a contingent of people that demands that it be a generic setting. I'm not sure why this is; but given that every new campaign setting release by WoTC has included at least some new mechanics and restrictions (of varying amounts, some little, some more), it is odd that some people who do not seem overly invested in having a Greyhawk released, nevertheless find the time to demand that a hypothetical product be nothing more than "generic D&D." Personally, I am indifferent to what new mechanics (backgrounds, races, classes, rules) are added, or what restrictions are put in, but I don't want or need a "generic" Greyhawk. The places, names, maps, etc. are already available.
I think part of this is two-fold.
1) There seems to be nothing uniquely Greyhawk in the limitations. There are no Clerics or Orcs in Darksun because the Gods are dead and the Orcs genocided out of existence. In many cases the default is that if there isn't a good reason to exclude them, a race should at least be considered to exist in the setting in some way.
2) Many of the things that don't exist in the setting didn't exist in 1983, which is why they don't exist in the setting.
I'm going to use Pokemon as an example of what I mean. If someone wanted a faithful adaption of the Pokemon Red game, should it include Pichu and Elekid? Those are younger versions of Pokemon in the game (Pikachu and Electabuzz) so it is almost weird they wouldn't be in the game. But they weren't in the original... because they were developed later in the games history.
Tieflings frankly make too much sense for Greyhawk, if Iuz's Empire has existed longer than a decade. If the place is so full of demons and devils then in the current version of the game, Tielfings arising is a natural occurrence. And, while there might be an impulse of "well, yeah, but they'd all be evil, completely" I have to wonder about that. Tieflings are far enough removed from their heritage to have free will beyond their nature, and I'm sure that at some point refugees flee from the Evil Empire.
There is what seems to be a compelling narrative there, especially for a world supposedly steeped in neutrality, but there seems to be no reason to bar it except for "it wasn't there before" or "the people would just kill them on sight, so it isn't a player option."
B. "Thank you for explaining what you want. Now, let me tell you why you are wrong." One of the many frustrating things about an internet forum is that it rarely operates like a conversation; instead, it is almost always a debate. In other words- thesis, antithesis, synthesis. Except without the synthesis. And a side-effect of that is what is referred to as sea-lioning. So when you have fans of different settings (such as Eberron, or Forgotten Realms) continually demand that you keep explaining why you like a setting, and then tell you why that isn't sufficient, and then demand you explain it again, etc.- well, eventually you just ignore them. Because there are plenty of resources (here, elsewhere) to learn about Greyhawk if that's what they really want; if they just want to keep asserting that they don't see the need for the product, then time is better spent not engaging with them. On this matter, or any other.
But at some point, if you aren't willing to advocate for the setting, then it starts to sound hollow. Sure, I could go to wikipedia and learn the bare bones history, but as I've found out many times, that information is as often wrong as it is right, and it often doesn't have any impact to read.
Wiki authors are often not good storytellers, and there is more than one property I'd be bored to tears of if I only learned about it through a wiki.
But a new and vibrant campaign setting, that incorporated aspects of the old while paving the way for the new in a way that introduced new fans to the setting? That's something I would love. As I write, the thing that matters most is the quality of the end product. Take the best, and leave the rest.
But what would that even mean? What new things should be added that would be distinctively Greyhawk? What old things should be preserved to maintain the feel? What even is the feel other than "gritty mercenaries and treasure hunters."?
It's called the Free City because it is a city state. That doesn't make it very special, as there are a couple of other city states nearby, although Greyhawk is the biggest of them so it sometimes dominates its neighbours (depending which version of the setting you are using). Its rise to prominence is comparatively recent - when the region was part of the Great Kingdom of Aerdy it wasn't even the provincial capital.
Naming the world after the city is an out-of-character thing; people who live there don't refer to the World of Greyhawk. It took me a while to get Greyhawk (city), Flanaess (region), Oerik (continent), and Oerth (world) straight.
Okay... so it is a city-state like many others, that recently got big from obscure beginnings.
Why did it get big? Was there a major discovery there? Is it a major Trade Line with some group? Or is it just... there. Was there a war with Aerdy? Does it still exist? Was it a terrible place and that is how Greyhawk got its moniker?
This seems like a problem that's really hard to solve. You basically seem to be in a position where you don't know what Sword and Sorcery is and aren't interested in finding out. Which is fine, but it means your arguments are from a position of ignorance, so you may find them convincing, but obviously others are not going to, and some points are going to be very hard to deal with, because you simply don't have the context to adequately understand them, and it's not context that can be trivially delivered to you.
I'm struggling to think of modern fantasy authors who write stuff that's definitely S&S (or movies, or TV series - Spartacus was kind of close, but without the sorcery - it's sword and sandal, which is a related genre). You have people like Joe Abercrombie who are kind of close, but they tend to lack the mercenary-but-heroic-but-mercenary vibe that S&S typically has. The Malazan series by Steven Erikson isn't tonally a million miles away but is also a kind of extreme epic fantasy, which just sort of slides into being S&S at times. Scott Lynch's Locke Lamora books have a very Fritz Leiber-esque kind of S&S vibe to them, but there's also other stuff going on.
So. Here is a thing.
If without the proper context of other fantasy stories, I can't even be told what makes Greyhawk compelling... is it really compelling?
I'm going to go and make a baseless assumption that you are not super into Anime. That's fine, it just fits my example.
If I wanted to sell you on Hero and Demon Queen, a show I rather enjoy, I would likely go with something along the lines of "It takes the classic tale of the hero defeating the great evil, and spins it into a tale of the bonds between people, and how society and economic progress can hold back the tides of war and hate, while simulataneously exploring what a strong warrior does, when there is no war to fight. There are some anime tropes, but also powerful emotional character developments."
However, in response to Greyhawk I'm getting "Well, if you haven't read the entire library of one author from at least twenty years ago, or gone and done the research yourself, I can't help you."
Which... seems odd. Like, is this setting only good if you are a fan of specific branches of fantasy that haven't been around for the last few years?
That isn't really true in the tone of the setting, though. Particularly as written by Ed Greenwood himself. Yes, the greatest magical empires might be gone, but most of them sucked pretty bad, and magic is still evolving and modernizing. New things are happening. New societies and cities and nations are emerging, and they're not worse than the past - in many cases they're distinctly better. Overall it is completely fair to compare the FR to mainstream high fantasy. It's no more a story of "decline" than WoW or FFXIV is. Yeah, bigger magic happened in the past (though insanely big stuff happens regularly, like on every edition-change!), but the past isn't "a better time", or even necessarily a bigger one.
Whereas in GH, the past clearly was, in many ways, a better time, where bigger, more important things happened. And this is true tonally, as well as technically.
Okay, so how was this accomplished? Is magic dying? Are the gods less present? Are people not innovating? I mean, what are the spells of Tasha, Mordenkainen, Bigby and Melf if magic is not modernizing and evolving?
If nothing important is going on... then why do I care enough to fight for a reprint of this setting?
Interesting. Greyhawk could be the "mass combat" AND the "advanced martial options" edition.
....just think, they can finally release the Warlord, IN GREYHAWK!
That would be ... well, I would get a lot of popcorn.
Hmm, I could see it. If you wanted to make it more about kingdom building and mass combat, most of the settings have some pretty big 800 lbs gorillas in the room. If Greyhawk doesn't, it does make it more ripe for "this is the setting about founding your own kingdom and fighting your neighbors for resources."
