D&D 5E (2014) For the Record: Mearls on Warlords (ca. 2013)

[Bawylie]

Trying this on for size.

Spotter: Your allies' ranged weapon attacks ignore half cover and three quarters cover if their targets have no cover or concealment against you.

Spotter (variant): Your allies add your intelligence bonus to either the attacks rolls or damage rolls of their ranged weapon attacks when they target a creature with cover that you can see.

 

[mellored]

Neat idea. What do you call it?

Off the top of my head, "bolster defense" or "tactical inspiration"
But i'm not that great at names.

What's it's fictional place in the universe?

A combination of warning shout (int let's you predict the attack, sherlock style) and inspiring (cha inspires the ally).

"You learn to see your opponents moves before they act. You can see an imminent attack. With a quick warning your allies can bolster their defense, and feel reassured knowing you are looking out for them".

(Amount should be proficiency bonus plus cha mod? Or flat rate?)

Depends on what else it gets.
Off the top of my head, prof+int and prof+cha.
Though i want it to scale by warlord levels, to prevent dipping.

But let's see how prof+stat*2 works out...
Assuming your THP is useless 50% of the time, and you start with 14 int/14 cha, and 12 rounds of combat a day.
That would be...
.75 * 12 = 9

Min: 8 * 9 = 72 damage per day.
Max: 22 * 9 = 198 damage.


2 cure wounds: 13 HP
2 mass healing word: 66
1 Mass heal: 700 HP.

Too much for a level 1 ability, but it could fit at level 5. It does need to scale up later though.
Which actually works. Dipping warlord 5 can get you something useful, but there's still reward for going more warlord.

 

[Bawylie]

I don't much concern myself with 1 level dips. Or really any multi classing bc I tend to disallow it. But I appreciate the placement concern.

 

[mellored]

Trying this on for size.

Spotter: Your allies' ranged weapon attacks ignore half cover and three quarters cover if their targets have no cover or concealment against you.

Spotter (variant): Your allies add your intelligence bonus to either the attacks rolls or damage rolls of their ranged weapon attacks when they target a creature with cover that you can see.

Both sound good. Depending on what else he get's.

 

[mellored]

I don't much concern myself with 1 level dips. Or really any multi classing bc I tend to disallow it. But I appreciate the placement concern.

It's too much at level 1 even as a straight warlord.

Works nicely as a major level 5 feature though. It's power is more in line with multi-attack or fireball.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Oh, by "both" I meant some THP abilities, and some mitigation abilities, not both in one ability. Seems to me the former is tactical (protecting your allies through positioning, intervention, distraction, etc.) and the other is inspirational/motivational.

I like Spotter. What about something that would let your ranged allies maintain their own cover without sacrificing anything?

Any reactions to "shield wall"?

 

[MechaPilot]

Exactly. Where does it go? No saying. The healing the warlord gave has been superseded by the cleric. So now the recipient is at full. Where is the inspiration they are supposed to be mechanically benefiting from? It's gone. They are just a guy sitting around at full HPs.

Just because they aren't a separated part of the HP pool doesn't mean they are gone. The HPs restored by the inspirational healing are still there; they have been supplemented by the clerical healing, not superseded by it.

Says you. Plenty of people around here disagree. Even some who really want a warlord. Besides, THPs do that too.

Yes, says I, as someone who really wants a warlord despite your implication to the contrary.

Your aim. Not the aim. And as has already been explained by several people, THPs still benefit someone who is injured, or near the end of a fight. Just as much as real healing would. A HP is a HP. Whether it is a T or not. And again, as a THP mechanic, those inspirational words can linger and fuel the character's drive and determination even after the cleric comes by and replenishes their life meter. Unlike you proposed HP mechanic.

No, the aim of Inspirational Healing is exactly that. It is part of the very name that those abilities heal (i.e. restore real HPs to the target), and logic dictates that healing cannot occur when no harm has preceded it. That is why THPs are Inspirational Buffing, and not Inspirational Healing. And that's perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong with Inspirational Buffing. I think you and I can even agree that Inspirational Buffing is something that the warlord should be able to do.

The beauty of using THPs is that the one proposed class feature could serve perfectly for both tropes. Equally well. Better even. Which is a win.

That's an amusing comment. . . for a few reasons.

While I disagree with your assertion that granting THPs "could serve perfectly for both tropes," that's not the funny part. The funny part comes from your conviction that they work "equally well." Perhaps they do work "equally well," since the granting of THPs from a pre-battle speech is probably the least flavorful possibility that could be chosen.

A pre-battle speech could embolden your allies, making them resistant to fear (advantage of fear saves).

A pre-battle speech could enrage your allies (advantage on damage rolls, or the ability to make a second attack during that first round as a bonus action).

A pre-battle speech could make your allies eager for the fight (advantage of initiative checks).

A pre-battle speech could harden your allies against the wiles of your foe (advantage on saves vs charm).

And so on.

Simply granting a few THPs is rather meh by comparison.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I really wish we could have one thread where people just discuss possible mechanics, and air their concerns/criticisms, without it triggering knee-jerk reactions and one-upmanship. Maybe this particular thread was an unlikely candidate, given the title and the purpose for which it was likely created, but there are now two discussions going on in parallel in this thread: one constructive and interesting, and one that just consists of pointless sniping.

I'd love to find allies who share my distaste for the Warlord and can explain their position eloquently and respectfully, but it's just embarrassing when potential allies can't bring themselves to act civilly or in good faith.

 

[MechaPilot]

Oh, by "both" I meant some THP abilities, and some mitigation abilities, not both in one ability. Seems to me the former is tactical (protecting your allies through positioning, intervention, distraction, etc.) and the other is inspirational/motivational.

I agree that both THP granting and mitigation in one ability would be odd. I think each one has its place (I just also think that actual inspirational healing has a place too), and could stand to be represented.

I like Spotter. What about something that would let your ranged allies maintain their own cover without sacrificing anything?

Maybe I misread it, but doesn't Spotter allow your ranged allies to keep their cover? I read it as working like an artillery situation. The artillery (the ranged ally) has a large hill has cover (whatever cover the ally has), and the Spotter steps out from cover so that she can guide the artillery's indirect fire toward the enemy with cover from a direct shot.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

Just because they aren't a separated part of the HP pool doesn't mean they are gone. The HPs restored by the inspirational healing are still there; they have been supplemented by the clerical healing, not superseded by it.

Are you actually suggesting we should keep track of which individual HPs a PC has and where they came from? The system does not account for that level of granularity.

No, the aim of Inspirational Healing is exactly that. It is part of the very name that those abilities heal (i.e. restore real HPs to the target),

Both the Rally maneuver and the Inspiring Leader feat disagrees with you. Therefore, it's a safe bet to say the devs do too. Since they wrote them and placed them into the PHB.

A pre-battle speech could embolden your allies, making them resistant to fear (advantage of fear saves).

A pre-battle speech could enrage your allies (advantage on damage rolls, or the ability to make a second attack during that first round as a bonus action).

A pre-battle speech could make your allies eager for the fight (advantage of initiative checks).

A pre-battle speech could harden your allies against the wiles of your foe (advantage on saves vs charm).

And so on.

Simply granting a few THPs is rather meh by comparison.

Goal post moving. Your argument for real HP inspirational healing doesn't do these things either. Also you are strawmanning. I never said granting THPs was the only option a warlord class would have access too.