D&D 5E (2014) For the Record: Mearls on Warlords (ca. 2013)

[MechaPilot]

Are you actually suggesting we should keep track of which individual HPs a PC has and where they came from? The system does not account for that level of granularity.

Not at all. People are free to if they wish, but I am not advocating that people should do so.

Both the Rally maneuver and the Inspiring Leader feat disagrees with you.

The Inspiring Leader feat requires 10 minutes to use. It is not something that is used to heal in response to harm. It is a buff, and not healing.

The Rally maneuver is usable in response to harm, but why would you when you can use it beforehand and avoid harm to your permanent HPs. Even if you opted not to use it before combat because you had the time to use Inspiring Leader first, your best use of Rally for the maximum avoidance of harm to your permanent HPs is to use it as soon as the target has lost the temp HPs from the pre-battle speech.

These abilities certainly have a place, but they are not healing, they are buffs.

Therefore, it's a safe bet to say the devs do too. Since they wrote them and placed them into the PHB.

The same devs who are still trying to figure out the ranger almost one year after the PHB was released. Yeah, they're just people, just like all the rest of us. And yeah, they make games for a living. Even professionals don't always get their job right 100% of the time. Saru mo ki kara ochimasu.

Goal post moving. Your argument for real HP inspirational healing doesn't do these things either. Also you are strawmanning. I never said granting THPs was the only option a warlord class would have access too.

I am not strawmanning. I never said that you said that THPs would be the only option a warlord class would have.

I am not moving goal posts.
1) I have always said the warlord needs to be able to restore actual HPs, and
2) I simply said that the things I mentioned were also evocative of the pre-battle speech trope, and that I think they feel more evocative than THPs do.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

The Inspiring Leader feat requires 10 minutes to use. It is not something that is used to heal in response to harm. It is a buff, and not healing.

Not the issue presented. Now we are bringing timing issues into this? When did we stop talking about the trope of speaking to motivate and inspire? Perhaps you could please define exactly what it is you are trying to say so I can grok it long enough to reply. Because it feels like the goalposts keep dancing around the field.

The same devs who are still trying to figure out the ranger almost one year after the PHB was released.

Mischaracterization. Unless you have a link somewhere of them saying such a thing...

 

[mellored]

Oh, by "both" I meant some THP abilities, and some mitigation abilities, not both in one ability.

But it works well in one ability.

Any reactions to "shield wall"?

Letting allies dodge as a bonus action could work.
Better, IMO, then making them use it for THP.

 

[mellored]

Would this feel better to people?

"If the ally takes the attack action on his turn, he can make 1 additional attack".

It takes agency away from the warlord though...

 

[MechaPilot]

Not the issue presented. Now we are bringing timing issues into this? When did we stop talking about the trope of speaking to motivate and inspire?

We didn't stop the discussion about talking to inspiring people. Inspirational Healing and Inspirational Buffing are both subcategories of Inspiration. They differ from each other, but they are both contained in the Inspiration bubble.

In the case of Inspiring Leader, the timing helps to illustrate that it is a buff, and not healing. The 10 minute requirement means that it won't be used in combat in response to harm. That means it's used out of combat. The most advantageous use of granting THPs is to do so before combat, especially since the lack of THPs could very well result in a greater likelihood of death. Also, since THPs last until you take a long rest, that clearly makes it a buff.

This is further backed up by the way that Inspiring Leader works:
It takes 10 minutes to use; that means it's not going to be used in response to harm done in combat.
Temporary HPs are defined in the book as a buffer against harm. The best use of a buffer is for prevention.
You can benefit from the feat once per short or long rest.

Combining the separate elements of how the feat works, we have an ability that is best used immediately at the close of each long rest, and the ability can be used to re-establish the buffer after each short rest. This is clearly a preemptive buffing, not healing.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

Rally.

 

[MechaPilot]

Rally also encourages a buffing usage. That it can be done viably in combat assists in maintaining a THP buff from Inspiring Leader. The primary difference between the buff usage of Rally and Inspiring leader is timing. Rally encourages use before a short rest, and inspiring Leader encourages use after resting.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

No. You have no way of demonstrating your claim. I've seen a battlemaster in play. Rally is not a pre-fight (or between fight) buff. Its used in combat. Usually when someone is in need of HPs. Just like healing is used. Because they are functionally identical in that regard.

I only wish there was a way I could explain more clearly that your intractable needs will likely never be met in this edition. They just aren't compatible. I've tried to compromise. I've tried to meet half way by engaging in theories for warlord powers that would be more palatable for a 5e paradigm. I don't think we are going to find common ground here. But good luck in your efforts to get a 4e port-over.

 

[MechaPilot]

I only wish there was a way I could explain more clearly that your intractable needs will likely never be met in this edition. They just aren't compatible. I've tried to compromise. I've tried to meet half way by engaging in theories for warlord powers that would be more palatable for a 5e paradigm. I don't think we are going to find common ground here. But good luck in your efforts to get a 4e port-over.

I have only two needs that are intractable: The warlord must be non-magical, and an option for real Inspirational Healing must be present. In all other regards of the Warlord class, I have been very flexible.

Furthermore, even on the Inspirational Healing front I have said that 1) it's okay if warlord healing requires the beneficiary to spend HDs, and 2) I support a sidebar explaining that DMs can change the restoration of HPs from Inspirational Healing to THPs (and that the sidebar should explain the likely effects if the DM should opt to make that change).

I simply do not know how to flex more with regard to the warlord than I already have/am.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

...real Inspirational Healing must be present.

I just don't see you getting it. That's my point. The devs, in every instance presenting inspirational healing, have done so by awarding THPs. Not real healing. I don't think they have the same mindset you do. So you are probably not going to get what you are looking for.