Forcing enemies to shift

[RigaMortus2]

So what is the deal with all of these powers/abilities that now 'forcefully' shift enemies around. I've seen (and I think most people have seen) a lot of examples of shifting/sliding/pushing/pulling. It seems like every class gets some crazy power to forcefully move opponents. Why did WotC decide to bring this about?

In 3E, there were only a couple of ways to shift an opponent around. Bull Rush, a couple mage spells, and maybe a special feat here and there. I am just wondering why 4E seems to be all about "shifting" people around a battlefield all of a sudden?

I'm not claiming this is a bad thing by any means, just an observation, and curious as to why WotC decided to introduce all the different abilities that shift people around the battlefield.

 

[med stud]

I think it has to do with opening up a new dimension on tactics. 3e was a tactical RPG, and good at it, but movement was generally not part of it. The full attacks also made movement unattractive to many martial classes.

Forceful movement often means you move an enemy somewhere where he doesn't want to be, which most likely leads to him moving back or at least to another place. Combats become more mobile, essentially.

 

[FourthBear]

I can think of a few reasons:

1) One of their big new classes is the warlord, a class with a strong emphasis on tactical manuevering. This may have led the design team to be thinking about movement powers as they developed the warlord and that bled over to the power development for other classes.
2) The design team wanted to encourage fights in 4e to have lots of movement and active tactical shifting. I'll note that the iconic ranger and warlock abilities require them to be near their enemy, suggesting the designers want strikers to be constantly moving in battle to get close enough to tag an enemy, rather than hiding in a corner and ranged attacking all encounter long.
3) To encourage writers and DMs to use terrain and enviromental effects more. In a game without plentiful effects to move others, it can often be too easy to simply ignore those sulfur pits, weak floors and patches of ice.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Because they wanted to discourage the PCs and opponents from just forming ranks, stepping up to each other and letting the front rows pound on each other while the back rows wait for someone to drop so they can step up like in the old Pool of Radiance computer games.

See, proof that 4e is less like a video game.

 

[Hussar]

Yup, pretty much what's already been said.

Mobile combat is more interesting tactically than static combat. Rock'em sock'em style fights are boring. So, we need some way to make sure that everyone is shifting around.

How to do that?

Add in mechanics to classes that allow everyone to contribute to that end of mobile combat.

 

[Mortellan]

How does this shifting work in character though? Can a halfling shift a gargantuan dragon for instance?

 

[Hussar]

How does this shifting work in character though? Can a halfling shift a gargantuan dragon for instance?

The easy answer is, who cares? Just sit back and enjoy it.

The longer answer is a bit more complicated. It might help to simply think that the players now have a minor degree of editorial control over the scene. Using your example, it would be ridiculous for a halfling to shift a gargantuan dragon. However, if you think of it another way - the player declares that the dragon is going to move 2 squares to the left, you can simply narrate the action however you like.

It's not that the halfling physically moved the dragon, it's that the dragon moved over on its own. That the move was initiated by the player and not the DM is not terribly important. Perhaps the dragon lost his balance, or stepped in a hole, or whatever explanation works for you at the time.

The rules are not there to provide narration. That's your job as the player or the DM.

 

[arscott]

How does this shifting work in character though? Can a halfling shift a gargantuan dragon for instance?

It depends on the power. For example, the Dwarven fighter's Tide of Iron power represents her physically pushing opponents back with her shield, and it only works on large or smaller creatures (and is size based, so if it were a halfling fighter, it would only work on medium or smaller). On the other hand, Turn Undead represents the undead being forced back by the cleric's holiness, so there's no size restriction.

 

[small pumpkin man]

How does this shifting work in character though? Can a halfling shift a gargantuan dragon for instance?

Firstly, shift is a type of movement, it's something you do yourself to ignore OAs, what everyone is talking about is sliding. Secondly, it depends on the power, I believe pushing and pulling are supposed to be limited by relative size, since their supposed to involve physical force (things like bull rush, tide of iron, the goblin picadors), whereas sliding isn't, as it's supposed to involve either magic or mind games (things like thunder lance, white raven onslaught, positioning strike).

 

[Li Shenron]

The easy answer is, who cares? Just sit back and enjoy it.

I care.