Forgotten Realms Tech Timeline?

[Archade]

Hey all,

One of my players grumbled that technology doesn't move forward in the Forgotten Realms. I know I had read some instances where they did talk about advances, especially in the AD&D Netheril supplement, so I spent an hour going through my gaming library, and what I found I put below.

Does anyone have any other examples of technology advancing, and can quote a source?

Technology Timeline
-2558 The lance becomes available in other human cultures (Netheril 30)
-2525 Chainmail becomes available in Netheril (Netheril 31)
-763 Greatswords become available in Netheril (Netheril 31)
1358 Gond teaches Lantanese the secret of smokepowder

Magic Timeline
-3830 Humans of netheril taught magic by the Earlanni (FRLE 84)
-3533 Nether scrolls are discovered (FRLE 97)
-3461 Congenio Ioun invents the Ioun stone, originally called Congenio’s pebbles (Netheril EA5)
-3095 Gnomes exposed to Nether Scrolls and become attuned to illusion spells (FRLE 97)
-2302 Noanar invents the fireball spell (Netheril 26)
-1993 Lucke invents the first summon monster spell (Netheril 26)
-1590 General Mattick invents magic missile (Netheril 27)
-1114 Spelljamming magic discovered by the Netherese (Cormanthyr 35)
-553 Netherese arcanists discover the Shadow Plane (FRLE 98)
(1081) Agannazar is slain (when did he invent his spells?, FRLE 141)

Religion Timeline
-4070 Shevarash the Black Archer dies but undergoes Apotheosis to become the Night Hunter and Arrow Bringer (Cormanthyr 33)
-2550 Uluitu exiles himself to the Astral Plane (FRCS 268) when the deity Othea was slain? (FRFP 109)
-2489 Mulhorandi pantheon arrives in Faerun (FRLE 61)
-1800 Deep Duerra ascends to divine status (FRLE 99)
-1071 Ra, Inama, Girru, Ki, Marduk, Nanna-Sin, Nergal, Utu die (FRLE 62)
-734 Enlil leaves the Realms (FR10 5)
-339 Mystryl dies and is reincarnated as Mystra (FRLE 99)
-338 The worship of Aumunator greatly diminishes (Netheril 91)
(95) Uthgar Gardolfsson leads Ruathens (when does he ascend to divinity?)
(1018) Death of Tchazzar (FRCS 270)
1358 Time of Troubles – Destruction of Bane, Bhaal, Gilgeam, Ibrandul, Myrkul, ascendancy of Cyric and Mystra (FRCS 271)
1358 Moander dies, Finer Wyvernspur becomes divine (??)
1369 Xvim becomes a lesser god (FRCS 271)
1372 Bane reincarnated, Xvim dies (FRCS 271)

Race/Culture Timeline
-30,000 Large eggs rain on Toril, and the first dragons hatch across faerun (TSR9487 7)
-24,500 Survivors of the Kingdom of Tintageer escape from Faerie to Toril (Novel: Evermeet: Island of Elves)
-10,000 Drow created from dark elves and driven underground (FRLE 52)
-8080 Mind flayers enslave Clan Duergar of Barakuir (FRLE 115)
-5000 Comet hits Cormanthor (Cormanthyer 32)
-4800 Fey’ri created (FRLE 84)
-2487 Imiskari flee into the Underdark (FRLE 61)
-1075 Orcgate opens (FRLE 61) which is arrival of gray orcs?
20 Calendar of Harptos adopts Shieldmeet day (Cormanthyr 36)
324 Harpers at Twighlight formed (FRLE 127)
1099 First modern contact with Kara-Tur and Zakhara (FRCS 270)

 

[Nyaricus]

While I can't really make any specific statements about technology moving forward in Faerun, here is an observation of real life, which may help you and your players dispute.

You player is likely attuned to modern life, in which huge leaps of technology have made it seem like that is how life is. It's been awhile, but I reember seeing ~6 or 7 years ago in schoola video talking about how 80-90% of all inventions have been made in the last 10 or 15 years, which likely isn't far off from the truth. The english vocabulary has boomed from 400,000 to 600,000 words in the 50s, 60s and 70s to now just over a million (if a prediction in the Globe and Mail from the spring of this year is true). They didn't have nanoseconds in the 50s, after all; sure as heck Shakespear wasn't counting those down either - although he is the man who made the english people proud of their own language.

So, given that, previous the Renaissance period (of which, with the advent of Smokepowder, Faerun is just entering into), technology really didn't see many leaps and/or bounds. Essentually, it came down to the arms and armour race, as well as a few jumps in architecture and the like.

For example, the stirrup was introduced into Europe proper in the 900s. Before that, one would have to have considerable skill in the saddle to stay upright whilst swinging a sword - and you would not have seen a lance weilder on a horse, since you'd be knocked off at the slightest inpact. So, the stirrup was pretty darn useful.

The arms and armour race was never even. As soon as a smith found out how to temper his steel better than anyone else and make a few fine blades and other weapons which ate right through armour, did the guy in the kingdom over figure out the weaknesses in the armour the soldiers were using and make it even more formidable. There were many dead ends and experimentations with styles of armour and weapons; many were unweildy or, perhaps worse, flawed in a way which would be at a grave disadvantage to it's owner.

Pre-middle ages (and a bit into it as well; using 1066 AD as the beginning of the middle ages) it was a set of cloth which was the basis of defense. On top of that, a chain shirt or a full set of chainmail armour. Slowly, plates were added in parts of the armour which the smiths felt needed that extra bit of attention. Breatplate covered your mid-section and chest with a number of plates. Eventually, this gave us plate armour, such as you see jousting knights wearing, or even the 17th century Maximillian armour, which was perhaps the best set of armour ever invented in the entire world.

The secret to make leather armours was never lost with the Romans, it was simply too expensive until the Renaissance. Sometimes it would be studded, sometimes not. Cloth armour was usually just alyer for the rich men who had chainmail or plate, but was oftent the only armour a peasent fighter would have.

Mostly, smiths kept to what they knew and technology advanced slowly. It wasn't until gunpowder that heavy plate fell out of vogue; the fact was that whether you were hit wearing plate armour or hit wearing leather armour, the gunpowder would penetrate, so lighter armours came into promience, and with lighter weapons (such as the rapier, bodkin, dirk, et al) which could pierce them with deadly ease. A general admiration of greece and rome contributer to more elegant, gentle-men like weapons; the people of the age wished to appear more noble and proper whilst eviscerating their foes.

Back to gametalk, FR seriously appears to be on the edge of its' Renaissance. Waterdeep, Silverymoon, Lantan and other places are contributing to this, the elves are coming back, the dwarves are birthing more frequently, the gnomes are likely becoming more prominent, and at the same time, there are many backwaters and untamed areas which are yet to be so enlightened. It will be interesting to see what develops.

In any case, apply some nominal common sense to FR and read some history books, and you should get a good idea of where technology is at, and where it's going. FR is about to ascend to the next tech level, IM(NS)HO.

cheers,
--N (a future history prof, by the way; just very tired right now )

 

[Kae'Yoss]

One important thing to consider:

Our world isn't like Toril. There's two big and very important differences:

Toril has magic, Earth doesn't.
Toril has active gods with visible and indisputable effects, Earth doesn't.

These things mean that Realmsians don't have to rely on technology as much as Earthers do.

A Faerûnan is wounded? There's divine healing available for those with sufficient funds (or even to the poor with charitable churches). You and me, on the other hand, have to let it heal normally, or have to undergo surgery. Because our priest cannot just lay on their hands and miraculously close the huge, gaping wound in our stomach, we have had to improve our technology and knowledge of the human body, so we can save badly wounded people (and still, we're not even close to the healing power you have in D&D!)

Want to wage war? Want some whole-sale destruction? A Faerûnan Warlord will hire some battle casters to sling fireballs around to blast enemies by the dozen, and maybe commision some big constructs to tear apart enemies left and right. They don't need explosives and tanks as much as we do.

I could go on about this, but it should be fairly clear. In the Realms, technology isn't advanced as much as on Earth because they don't need it nearly as much.

 

[sckeener]

Old Empires mentions that Mulhorand had steam power in addition to other tech advances. Priests of Thoth were the keepers of that tech.

 

[hexgrid]

One of my players grumbled that technology doesn't move forward in the Forgotten Realms.

This is a convention of fantasy in general, isn't it? Thousands and thousands of years seem to be able to pass on many fantasy worlds with little significant change to technology or society.

 

[Brakkart]

Another date for your timeline:

1362 (10 Uktar) Launch of the first ceramic hulled ship. Named Jie Zuo (Masterpiece), it is built by Ivar Devorast and launched at Innarlith. (Whisper of Waves pages 156-159)

 

[Nyeshet]

I observed a while back that there is an almost exponential increase in technology.

By around 1998-1999 we get to less than a year per 'age', but obviously that hasn't happened. Our advances are now limited by the speed we can 1) understand what we discover, 2) make use of what we understand to make more advanced tech, and 3) make use of new / advanced tech to learn / discover more. And the cycle repeats. Our advancement rate is now limited by the limitations of being human, it seems.

1993 ~birth of the Internet / Info Age
1987 ??
1975 Computer Age
1950 Nuclear Age
1900 Electric Age
1800 Steam Age
1600 Age of Discovery / Exploration (late Renaissance, Reformation)
1200 High Middle Ages (~1300-1350, the Proto-Renaissance)
400 (start of the Dark Age ~350-400, so perhaps from 400-1200 should be ignored in favor of 800 years prior to 400, as little advancement occurred between ~350 / 400 to ~1000 / 1050.)
-400 (?? Late Hellenic / Early Roman period, Late Iron Age, steam toy and simple bronze clock-works in Greece around this time)
-2000 Iron Age (~1900, Hittites, is generally viewed as the source of western Iron Age, although Iron was not commonly in use until ~1200 (Trojan War period), later in N.Europe)
-5200 Bronze Age (farming, first cities, etc, bronze usage rare until ~3000 as I recall)
-11800 first use of Copper, as I recall, is found around -10k, some agriculture already long in practice, sometimes referred to as the 'early bronze age' although bronze was quite rare for several thousand more years.
-24400 (There was a cultural / technological explosion of sorts ~30,000 bc. Some believe that a new gene mutation involving brain development may have been responsible, as one has been shown to have occurred in humans sometime between -20k and -50k.)

It is a bit of a stretch, I realize, but then I was not expecting a perfect matchup. Merely enough to suggest that a pattern might exist.

In any case, as some have already stated, Faerun is on the edge of a Renaissace. They are developing new technologies (on Lantan), new spells (nearly everywhere), vast trade systems, and more and vaster social organizations / kingdoms / empires. They are beginning to explore their world - discovering and likely soon to start regular trade with (or colonization of) KaraTur and Zaakhara - and those Mesoamerican-style sub-continents / isles, if I recall correctly. There is even an entire unexplored continent on the far side of the world, waiting to be explored, colonized, etc. Only their various wars and their deities might slow down their advancement - which, to be honest, seem to have notably slowed them down anyway, as has their reliance on magic rather than learning to wield non-magical techniques.

Unless a massive conflict - the type leading to a Dark Age - occurs in the next century, the up coming 2-4 centuries are likely to be very busy, very productive, and result in a very different Faerun. It would be like comparing 13th century Europe to 17th century Europe. I expect the rise of a new Nether, actually, floating cities and all, by the year 1800 in Faerun, if not sooner (maybe 1700).

 

[Nyaricus]

I respectfully disagree.

These things mean that Realmsians don't have to rely on technology as much as Earthers do.

That's not true. Not everyone is a Wizard or Cleric and can create food and water, and for those who aren't, need to get food from somewhere. Faerun is quite a bit bigger than Earth, and likely has a larger population, and that means you need a bunch of argricultural technology and a vast market system to feed everyone and what not. And that's just geographic/population considerations for food.

There's also the fact that not everyone is a mage, thus a warrior needs his sword to be an effective tool, and his armour to resist blows traded with others of his ilk. Sure, Faerun has more mages than standard D&D (according to the changes to the population tables that [the FRCS book??] gives). But the fact is that the only reason technology is widespread is because people feel they need it.

Take plate armour. It's widespread in Faerun (RoF states this as a fact for many cultures - that any of the standard PHB items can be found within X culture/race, plate armour being one of those items) and the only reason it would be if there was a need for it - that would be to protect the wearer from the heavy blows of an effective weapon. And that weapon would only be there because it was effective against the previous generation of armour. And so on and so forth.

Mages do not need to rely on technology stuff so much because they are an exception to our (Earth's) reality. Sure, a larger exception than normal ever by the DMG population tables, but an exception nonetheless.

I could go on about this, but it should be fairly clear. In the Realms, technology isn't advanced as much as on Earth because they don't need it nearly as much.

I wouldn't call that true, again. The common folk who feed everyone still need it, the fighter still needs it, the rogue still needs it. Heck, just look at all the crazy types of alternate armours and whatnot in some of the FR suppliments, and you'll see an amazing amount of technology that is realms-specific and even surpasses our own abilities IRL.

In any case, I really don't think that technology in the Realms is any slower than on earths - they've just had many more setbacks over the ages and aeons.

cheers,
--N

 

[Kae'Yoss]

That's not true. Not everyone is a Wizard or Cleric and can create food and water, and for those who aren't, need to get food from somewhere.
Faerun is quite a bit bigger than Earth, and likely has a larger population, and that means you need a bunch of argricultural technology and a vast market system to feed everyone and what not. And that's just geographic/population considerations for food.

I don't know about Toril, but Faerûn has a population of something like 66 million. It's not nearly as crowded as present-day earth is at places. Large countries have like a couple of million habitants, and everything over 30.000 is considered a metropolis. Earth, on the other hand, has about 6 billion people, with single countries with over 1 billion people. I don't know about international standards, but in Germany, a city of 30.000 is called a "middle city". Cities start with a population of 10.000. I think, generally a metropolis needs a million inhabitants.

And while not everyone is a wizard, there are spellcasters who can help the crops grow.

There's also the fact that not everyone is a mage, thus a warrior needs his sword to be an effective tool

And if it's not effective enough? Then he gets a magical one.

Mages do not need to rely on technology stuff so much because they are an exception to our (Earth's) reality. Sure, a larger exception than normal ever by the DMG population tables, but an exception nonetheless.

And mages can replace many uses of technology. Not everyone needs to be a magic-user. For many things, access to a magic-user is enough. Take war, for example: Faerûn doesn't need tanks and fighter jets, and artillery and whatever because they have spellcasters who can fly, destroy large groups of combatants at once, take down fortifications, and so on.

I wouldn't call that true, again. The common folk who feed everyone still need it, the fighter still needs it, the rogue still needs it. Heck, just look at all the crazy types of alternate armours and whatnot in some of the FR suppliments, and you'll see an amazing amount of technology that is realms-specific and even surpasses our own abilities IRL.

For centuries, even millenia, they all got by without. The fighter doesn't need a rifle. He has his magic bow. The rogue doesn't need surveillance gear, he has his cloak and boots of elvenkind, his ring of invisibility, and his eyes of the eagly, maybe even some divination magic.

In any case, I really don't think that technology in the Realms is any slower than on earths - they've just had many more setbacks over the ages and aeons.

And far less advocates. There's Gond, and the gnomes sometimes, and that's it. Most of the great old realms were very powerful in magic (in Netheril, it was used for just about everything, for example).

If rich people need quick transit across the continent, they get teleport. If they want something destroyed, they get a good evoker. If they need healing, they get a priest. If they want to have something creted fast, they get a conjurer. And so on.

Sure, the poor folk doesn't have all that, but they couldn't afford it. And they couldn't afford the invention of things like airplanes, modern surgery equipment, and heavy construction machinery.

And that's an important point: Though you see nowadays that many people, average citizens, even poor people have TV, cell phones, cars, they weren't invented for or by them really. In order to have something invented, you usually need two things: Someone to invent it and someone to fund the whole invention/design process.

And that's where Faerûn differs from Earth: Many, if not most, of the smart guys who could invent anything are wizards and create new magic. Sure, there are gondsmen, techsmiths, gnomes, and some other inventors, but they're only a small percentage of Faerûn's population, the rest will study magic.

And the guys with the money, usually nobles and such, will often put their money to have a pet wizard, not a court artificer. Magic is established, worked for millenia, is proven to be quite powerful. But that tech freak? He creates unwieldy clockwork contraptions that need strange fuels and often aren't safe to operate. Why pay such a nut money to take half a year to make something to dig my dishes, only to have it blow up in my face after a day of working? I can put the same money to pay a wizard, and he'll have the first ditches dug by noon tomorrow, using telekinetik force, disintegration, or summoned creatures, or what not.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Oh, and the "medicine" sector: If someone decides that he wants to help people, cure them, he often won't start meddling with alchemy (though that does exist). Instead, he becomes a cleric, feeling himself called by Lathander, Ilmater, Torm or a similar deity of healing. He will then wander around applying his miraculous cure magic to people. The fun thing: If someone's sick, he doesn't have to search 10 years for the vaccine - he just casts "remove disease" and whatever it was, it's gone.

And if it isn't, it's probably a vile curse or something, and mundane means of curing won't help.