Forgotten Rums....? Evil Overlords...?
- Thread starter dagger
- Start date
ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
Anthony - regarding the SRD question I asked a page or so back...?
First off, thanks Anthony for replying to this thread. You have been really cool about this.
I am a big fan of FR. but I have bought just about every book that WOTC has put out for 3E because I am a greedy little gnome. That said, I beileve that the setting is more important than the rules. The Guild mage prestige class was presented in both Tome and Blood and in the MoF. I read T&B first and was not interested in the prestige class at all. Why? because it was a generic guild mage. Whee. That is like a generic mage. Um, he is cool because of... stuff. But with MoF it was a guild mage of Waterdeep.
Suddenly the class was worth looking at. Why? because I know a little something about Waterdeep. I have a mage there in a game I run. Maybe it could be worth looking into.
I buy a ton of gaming material every month. Far more than I will ever use, but the one thing I skip every time is the book of prestige classes and feats. Why? without the bit of fluff that makes it useful, they are just pages of stats. I could read a statistics book for that.
The only reason I find this at all odd is that I thought that "crunch" books had their day already. Now that the ELH is out, what other rules can you print? I think in just the WOTC core books there are too many flavorless Prestige Classes, too many wacky feats for me to buy another. And this is not counting what the other guys have put out. I think there will always be a market for new spells and possibly for new equipment. But how many of those can you make?
I understand that the real world always keeps us from making what we want to make, but I am very surprised on this angle. I would have thought it would be completely reversed. That the crunch books have had their day and all WOTC has left to print are books of fluff. (just to continue with the analogy) But I guess I was mistaken...
I am a big fan of FR. but I have bought just about every book that WOTC has put out for 3E because I am a greedy little gnome. That said, I beileve that the setting is more important than the rules. The Guild mage prestige class was presented in both Tome and Blood and in the MoF. I read T&B first and was not interested in the prestige class at all. Why? because it was a generic guild mage. Whee. That is like a generic mage. Um, he is cool because of... stuff. But with MoF it was a guild mage of Waterdeep.
Suddenly the class was worth looking at. Why? because I know a little something about Waterdeep. I have a mage there in a game I run. Maybe it could be worth looking into.
I buy a ton of gaming material every month. Far more than I will ever use, but the one thing I skip every time is the book of prestige classes and feats. Why? without the bit of fluff that makes it useful, they are just pages of stats. I could read a statistics book for that.
The only reason I find this at all odd is that I thought that "crunch" books had their day already. Now that the ELH is out, what other rules can you print? I think in just the WOTC core books there are too many flavorless Prestige Classes, too many wacky feats for me to buy another. And this is not counting what the other guys have put out. I think there will always be a market for new spells and possibly for new equipment. But how many of those can you make?
I understand that the real world always keeps us from making what we want to make, but I am very surprised on this angle. I would have thought it would be completely reversed. That the crunch books have had their day and all WOTC has left to print are books of fluff. (just to continue with the analogy) But I guess I was mistaken...
Orcus
First Post
The whole problem is that you are using elves. Come on, people open your eyes! Elves are not cost effective.
Thats why we at Necromancer Games employ only undead. Mindless servants. Evil minions. Call them what you will. But the bottom line is this: Low pay. No breaks. No need for a health plan (though the zombies could use a dental). Just the occasional evil wizard to create undead generating items (but i hear they are unionizing). Sure, you get a bone in the shrink wrap every now and then, but what the heck! People think it is a freebie! And if you dont make your margin, just end the summoning on a few of the skeletons. Staff reductions without the moral dilemma!
Death to elves! Hey, undead elves...now that has some promise. If any "elves" want to come work with us "evil wizards" maybe we could "defeat" all the "bean counters".
Clark
PS--as for buying D&D, no thanks. I'll just take the Open Game Content, rename it Dragons & Dungeons, and throw more cool 1E feel back in the rules and republish it. License agreements? Puhleeeez. And while I am dreaming I would find Dave Trampier and drag him out of hiding to do the interior art!
Thats why we at Necromancer Games employ only undead. Mindless servants. Evil minions. Call them what you will. But the bottom line is this: Low pay. No breaks. No need for a health plan (though the zombies could use a dental). Just the occasional evil wizard to create undead generating items (but i hear they are unionizing). Sure, you get a bone in the shrink wrap every now and then, but what the heck! People think it is a freebie! And if you dont make your margin, just end the summoning on a few of the skeletons. Staff reductions without the moral dilemma!
Death to elves! Hey, undead elves...now that has some promise. If any "elves" want to come work with us "evil wizards" maybe we could "defeat" all the "bean counters".
Clark
PS--as for buying D&D, no thanks. I'll just take the Open Game Content, rename it Dragons & Dungeons, and throw more cool 1E feel back in the rules and republish it. License agreements? Puhleeeez. And while I am dreaming I would find Dave Trampier and drag him out of hiding to do the interior art!
Last edited:
seankreynolds
Adventurer
Re: Bean counters
Are you saying that Lords of Rumness, a 192-page book that sells for 30 beans, doesn't make its profit margin? Despite the fact that it sold at least 4x as many copies as any other book in the Rums line a few years ago?
If a Forgotten Rums book that sells 40 copies isn't a success, then the Bean-Counters need to fix what their definition of success is. There are a hundred Bee Honey companies out there that would love to sell 40 copies of their books.
A statement which says that FR _does_ sell. Are you saying that the FR books aren't making their profit margin? That certainly is news ... books that go to reprint and yet aren't making a profit, very strange. Perhaps someone like the evil troll Feather-Line is involved somewhere? >
Which implies that your margins are not satisfactory. Yet (in the story) Magic of Fae Rum sold 70% as many copies as the FRCS. Are those not satisfactory numbers? Are not the wicked Haze Brothers demanding ridiculous numbers of beans from the Wizards of the Toast, despite that the Wizards are earning plenty of beans, moreso than other mages that work for the Haze Brothers (in fact, especially compared to the other mages under the Haze Brothers who seem to be dumping beans into the sewer rather than earning them)?
20 elves laid off in 2 years, yep.
Been there, done that. Aren't the Wizards making books now that cost _45_ beans, because they know they will sell at those prices?
So, by canceling the books that _are_ selling (and hitting their margins), you're _making_ your margins? By not making books that make money, you end up making money? Ah, the madness of Bean-Counters....
By turning it into something that _isn't_ FR. That's not a solution. If the result of this push is that you have the book Tomb and Brood with an FR logo on it, that doesn't make it an FR book, and the FR fans are going to figure that out in about 25 seconds.
Zulkir said:
Are you saying that Lords of Rumness, a 192-page book that sells for 30 beans, doesn't make its profit margin? Despite the fact that it sold at least 4x as many copies as any other book in the Rums line a few years ago?
If a Forgotten Rums book that sells 40 copies isn't a success, then the Bean-Counters need to fix what their definition of success is. There are a hundred Bee Honey companies out there that would love to sell 40 copies of their books.
A statement which says that FR _does_ sell. Are you saying that the FR books aren't making their profit margin? That certainly is news ... books that go to reprint and yet aren't making a profit, very strange. Perhaps someone like the evil troll Feather-Line is involved somewhere? >
Which implies that your margins are not satisfactory. Yet (in the story) Magic of Fae Rum sold 70% as many copies as the FRCS. Are those not satisfactory numbers? Are not the wicked Haze Brothers demanding ridiculous numbers of beans from the Wizards of the Toast, despite that the Wizards are earning plenty of beans, moreso than other mages that work for the Haze Brothers (in fact, especially compared to the other mages under the Haze Brothers who seem to be dumping beans into the sewer rather than earning them)?
20 elves laid off in 2 years, yep.
Been there, done that. Aren't the Wizards making books now that cost _45_ beans, because they know they will sell at those prices?
So, by canceling the books that _are_ selling (and hitting their margins), you're _making_ your margins? By not making books that make money, you end up making money? Ah, the madness of Bean-Counters....
By turning it into something that _isn't_ FR. That's not a solution. If the result of this push is that you have the book Tomb and Brood with an FR logo on it, that doesn't make it an FR book, and the FR fans are going to figure that out in about 25 seconds.
seankreynolds
Adventurer
Renshai said:
If WotC's recent history (in the past year) in handling new game settings is any indicator, no.
Blacksad
Explorer
Re: Re: Bean counters
I would like to know, what's an FR book?
In my mind, Magic of Faerun is a spell and magic item book with the FR logo on it, and the flavor of FR is an inspiration for the spell, item and prestige class. Much like Greyhawk as some have said, but the difference with greyhawk is that not many (there is a greyhawk book that isn't reprinted) people have a map, country description or whatever to use greyhawk specific stuff.
seankreynolds said:
I would like to know, what's an FR book?
In my mind, Magic of Faerun is a spell and magic item book with the FR logo on it, and the flavor of FR is an inspiration for the spell, item and prestige class. Much like Greyhawk as some have said, but the difference with greyhawk is that not many (there is a greyhawk book that isn't reprinted) people have a map, country description or whatever to use greyhawk specific stuff.
Arcane Runes Press
First Post
Orcus said:
Yeah, but undead are brainless , so they don't even hunt and peck, they just keeping poking the Q button with their index finger.
I mean, who wants the book of QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ?
Certainly not me. It's all fluff.
Patrick Y.
seankreynolds
Adventurer
Zulkir said:
I am baffled at how Lords of Rumness is not considered "mixed.
12 pages of spells/items.
10+ pages of pre-statted characters
6 pages of prestige classes
40 pages of pre-statted encounter sites (not including maps)
68 pages/192 = 35%. That's a really good amount of crunchy material there. How much more needs to be there before it's considered "mixed"? 50%? 60%?
The FRCS is only about 35%....
Similar Threads
- Locked
