Forgotten Rums....? Evil Overlords...?

[ColonelHardisson]

I'm not being facetious at all by saying this - I find discussions about business between people in the know to be fascinating.

I love when Uncle Sean tells us a story!

 

[Blacksad]

I am baffled at how Lords of Rumness is not considered "mixed.

12 pages of spells/items.
10+ pages of pre-statted characters
6 pages of prestige classes
40 pages of pre-statted encounter sites (not including maps)

68 pages/192 = 35%. That's a really good amount of crunchy material there. How much more needs to be there before it's considered "mixed"? 50%? 60%?

The FRCS is only about 35%....

I can immediately use genasi or a new spell.

The prestige class, characters and encounter sites from Lord of Rumness requires some work to be used in another campaign.

I think that's where you have to draw the line between fluff and crunch, otherwise you'll have to consider the Manual of the Plane to be all fluff.

 

[Kershek]

At this point, considering the post differential, I think Sean should put in his sig, "No...I am not kreynolds."

 

[Corinth]

...The only thing about undead minions is that the incorporeal ones arent worth a damn. Keep that in mind.

They make great industrial spies.

 

[am181d]

I am baffled at how Lords of Rumness is not considered "mixed.

12 pages of spells/items.
10+ pages of pre-statted characters
6 pages of prestige classes
40 pages of pre-statted encounter sites (not including maps)

Pre-statted characters and encounters are "flunchy". They're rules-based, sure, but much more setting specific, and therefore, less useful. Because, if you want to create an entire new world, do you want to populate it with pre-generated NPCs with the serial numbers filed off? (Well, maybe, maybe not...)

Prestige classes, feats, etc. These "crunchy bits" can be used as building blocks to make your own stuff. For a lot of DMs, I'm betting that the "making stuff" part is half the fun.

Obviously there IS a market for pre-statted characters and encounters (and modules, by extension), but it's a third distinct audience.

"Flunchy."

Someone, please come up with a better term.

 

[Ristamar]

"Flunchy."

Someone, please come up with a better term.

Cruffy...?

 

[cybertalus]

I've been in love with the Realms since I first set eyes on the 1st Edition boxed set. The thing I love about it is the "fluff" (a term I despise because it's quite derogatory and dismissive).

When I got the FRCS the first section I went to was the gods. I wanted to know who was in, who was out, and who was different. Then I started looking for entries on my favorite NPCs, then my favorite cities and towns to see what was up with them. Then I hit the foldout map. Eventually I got around to the sections on game mechanics and other stuff, but that section didn't get my imagination firing like the "fluff" did.

So yeah, I'm firmly in the fluff camp. Heck my favorite Realms supplements ever were the Volo's Guides. You couldn't get more fluffy than that if you made the books out of cotton candy.

Take the "fluff" out of the Realms products and what you've got is what you have when you take the fluffy stuff out of the middle of a 3 Musketeers Bar: a dull hollow chocolate shell. Certainly not something I'd buy.

One other point. In the exchanges between Anthony and Sean one thing I see is that Anthony is telling me something I've gotten very tired of hearing, that as a customer I'm not as important because my tastes don't go along with the majority of the company's customers. Sean meanwhile is defending the value of my tastes, and saying that (at least in this specific case) they are important.

No doubt that if there is ever a choice between buying a product by someone who put himself out there to defend the value of the "fluff" I so enjoy, and the company which says my tastes are not important because not enough people agree with me, the one who defended the fluff will have the decided advantage.

 

[Zot_Wyzo]

I've seen the elves' side and the bean counters' side

The truth is, in Corporate America regardless of any feelings about the subject (emotions always run high when discussing your favorite recipes), the bean counters are right.

Now before I start a flame fest, please note, the bean counter race did presuppose the notion that there would be gnomes who loved some fluff about Forgotten Rums, or even something like DragonPants, Dark Rum, RaisinLost, or a whole host of heretofore unknown recipes. The bean counters wisely allowed the creation of the Open Gastronomic License and the Donut20 License, allowing elves from all over the world to produce the recipes with the flavors they like. They allowed others to produce the RaisinLost, DragonPants, and Dark Rum recipes, keeping gnomes happy all over the world!

The fact is, the current home of the elves can only support so many elves and a requires a certain return on the investment to produce Core Donuts and Forgotten Rums. Should that return not be forthcoming, it's time for some of the elves to leave the elven homes in the human lands to find another village in which they can produce the recipes they like. This keeps elves employed in the industry they like, the gnomes are able to choose from a wide array of products, and the bean counters can remove those recipes that do not produce enough beans for them. We even must face the potential solution for the Wizards of the Toast that they may need to stop producing Forgotten Rums. Should that happen, it may go the way of the RaisinLost.

Everybody is happy, at least eventually. It's always hard when elves find themselves between villages, but eventually, you always end up in the right village to work on the recipes you love.

You have to love capitalism!

 

[CRG]

Should that happen, it may go the way of the RaisinLost.

Should the Toast-boys cease to find it financially viable, I think most people would agree with with Forgotten Rum going the way of RaisinLost, provided SSSSSSSSSSS continues to produce RaisinLost material. Presumably, some third party company could start making Forgotten Rum material with some sort of license to do so (as with DragonPants). Hopefully it will continue to be good.

However, this would drastically change the Toast-boys into a company that produce a whole bunch of Rum products to nearly exactly the model mentioned by Ryan Dancey in the recent posts ... Forgotten Rum would just be another setting where the Toast-boys produce a few set of "core-ish" books because that is where they see the big money is, and then ship off the rights to produce the rest to some other group.

I'm not sure what sort of pipeline the toast-boys see for incoming work and projects but that seems to eliminate a cash-flow creating product line (from where I sit) and ultimately pushes people interested in Forgotten Rum to follow another company.

 

[GothVader]

I don't have much time but I want to point out a couple of things real quick. First, there have only been 2 World of Greyhawk supplements for 3e and both kinds sucked. Real Greyhawk fans are pissed that the Realms got a better treatment than the "core" world. Real Greyhawk fans want more story, and it is there, all in the history of the world. Its not all crunchy.

Second, I am the last die hard communist on the planet. I will tell you exactly what WOTC problem is. How much money is enough money? It is never enough money. Corporations are never happy making a living, they always have to make more. Capitalism is a self-defeating system. Time to realize it folks. Sorry to argue politics but I thought it applied in this case.

Last, to Sean. Please stop, WOTC is going to sue you. Your fans don't want to see this.

Gothvader