Forgotten Rums....? Evil Overlords...?

[rounser]

What was wrong with the whale druid one? I haven't played it, but it looked sound enough.

Interestingly - as I understand it - both of these adventures constituted previews of a sort (of the Stronghold book and ELH, respectively).

 

[Andy_Collins]

DM Support

What Wizards of the Coast has done a poor job of is support for the dungeon master.

I'm curious: what's your definition of "support"? 'Cause it seems to me like there are an awful lot of "DM support" products on the shelves.

Just for the sake of argument, let's completely ignore any "support" afforded to the DM by the Player's Handbook, the five classbooks, and the "player" chapters of the Psionics Handbook and Epic Level Handbook. And also ignore any "support" that might be gained from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and its following products, as well as from Oriental Adventures.

Dungeon Master's Guide, 256 pp. The granddaddy of 'em all.
Monster Manual, 224 pp. Enough monsters to populate any campaign.
Monsters of Faerun, 96 pp. But just in case MM wasn't enough...
Deities & Demigods, 224 pp. How to use gods in a campaign, including creating your own.
Manual of the Planes, 224 pp. How to use the planes in a campaign, including creating your own.
Eight "Adventure Path" modules plus Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, total 480 pp. More than a full campaign's worth of adventures.
Book of Challenges, 128 pp. But just in case the modules weren't enough...
Stronghold Builder's Guidebook, 128 pp. Unlimited dungeons.

Throw in chapters 7 & 8 of the Psionics Handbook (35 pp.) and chapters 3-6 of the Epic Level Handbook (184 pp.), which present the DM with a wealth of support material for these two optional rulesets.

That's approximately 1,978 pages of products directed primarily (if not wholly) at the DM, or about 82 pages per month of the lifespan of 3E D&D. Almost three pages per day, if you're reading 24-7.

And don't forget Dragon Magazine and Dungeon Magazine. That's another 100+ pages or so every month (or roughly 2,500 pages in the past two years), plenty of which is directed primarily at the DM--new monsters, tactics, organizations, rule variants, Dungeoncraft, and, of course, adventures.

Forgive me if I'm being obtuse, but...what's this support you're looking for?

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

What was wrong with the whale druid one?

It was about a WHALE druid.

 

[Zulkir]

Re: Margins... stupid.

The real problem is that "maximizing margins" is a *stupid* business plan for a publishing business.

I repeat, a *stupid* business plan.

You can't expect that any given book will have the same sales as any previous book. Book sales aren't predictable in that manner. And the market is inherently fragmented; most books will only sell to a particular submarket, not to "all readers".

This is akin to the insanity experienced by many major publishers when they decided that they would only publish blockbusters. Great margins! Sucky profits!

The majority of the profits in the publishing industry are in 'middle margin' books, which make a decent profit. By abandoning anything with less than stellar margins, you're abandoning about 80% of the market.

And nobody would argue that aiming to reduce your market share was, generally, good business.

Perhaps the correct argument is "We need these lower margin books in order to maintain market share." Because it's true.

Except we are talking about RPGs - a game - not novels. In the novel area you are correct - but even there you can target novel lines that are not making their margins. On the RPG end we can predict within 10% what a product will do. If we say we are going to sell 100 units in a year we will sell somewhere within 90 to 110 very consistently (we get surprised on occasion but not often).

AV

 

[seankreynolds]

Hey, I just want to say that I've been pretty harsh on Anthony, and I apologize for that. I think his job sucks and I'd never want to do it, so you have to give him credit for that.

 

[Zulkir]

Thanks

Sean,
Thanks I appreciate it. Just so you all know Sean was one of the guys I was the most excited to meet when i started working here at WotC.

Av

 

[MerricB]

Re: DM Support

I'm curious: what's your definition of "support"? 'Cause it seems to me like there are an awful lot of "DM support" products on the shelves.

Forgive me if I'm being obtuse, but...what's this support you're looking for?

You left out Enemies and Allies, Andy.

Couldn't agree with you more - there's actually too much DM stuff for me to absorb; much of it extremely good in quality.

Not counting the other d20 products, either.

(Is this the WotC designers' hour on ENworld? )

Cheers!

 

[rounser]

All IMO, and how these resources serve my needs as a DM:

Dungeon Master's Guide, 256 pp. The granddaddy of 'em all.

Good theoretical advice - but advice is still just advice. I still have to spend a lot of time in preparation.

Monster Manual, 224 pp. Enough monsters to populate any campaign.
Monsters of Faerun, 96 pp. But just in case MM wasn't enough...

I disagree, a lot. Don't like the selection, and still remember what was available in past editions, but now no longer. (Yay for Creature Catalog.)

Deities & Demigods, 224 pp. How to use gods in a campaign, including creating your own.
Manual of the Planes, 224 pp. How to use the planes in a campaign, including creating your own.

Ephemera, IMO. Don't need god stats, don't need the planes - have more important things to focus on.

Eight "Adventure Path" modules plus Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, total 480 pp. More than a full campaign's worth of adventures.

Adventure Path is a railroad of one adventure after another, and Return is a big megadungeon. Neither constitutes the kind of campaign I want to run.

Book of Challenges, 128 pp. But just in case the modules weren't enough...

A good resource that saves actual campaign work, IMO. A winner.

Stronghold Builder's Guidebook, 128 pp. Unlimited dungeons.

A DM has more important things to concentrate on than castle design, IMO, but it could come in handy.

Throw in chapters 7 & 8 of the Psionics Handbook (35 pp.) and chapters 3-6 of the Epic Level Handbook (184 pp.), which present the DM with a wealth of support material for these two optional rulesets.

Neither of which I'm interested in.

That's approximately 1,978 pages of products directed primarily (if not wholly) at the DM, or about 82 pages per month of the lifespan of 3E D&D. Almost three pages per day, if you're reading 24-7.

Not much of it saves time in campaign preparation. Advice is all well and good, but it does little to cut down on preparation time.

Dungeon Magazine.

Yup, a biggy. Saves a lot of work. Another winner.

Dungeoncraft

Gets you thinking, but advice is still just advice.

No doubt you'll differ in tastes, but that's my take.

 

[Zaukrie]

OMG, I finally made it to the end, and SKR and Zulkir are kissing and making up?

All that for a love fest at the end!

Seriously, I can't remember the poster's name, but I too am an MBA of some 11 years, who has been playing for more than 25 years. I work for a big company like Hasbro, that owns lots of smaller (or not so small) companies that constantly makes decisions that I don't agree with. But, you know what, they are a multi-billion dollar company for a reason, I just can't always figure it out.

For all of you that think companies and bean counters only care about CEOs, I think you are wrong. Yes, there are a lot of companies not run for the long run, but you know what, every one of you has a computer (or uses one at work, or...), you all seem to see movies, read books, eat, where do you think that stuff comes from? From companies. And, all those little publishers out there that do this in their spare time, if they didn't work for compaines, that made money, they couldn't eat, and have computers to make games that we all love.

Yes, I am concerned about the future (short-term) of D&D. But, let's not all be like the bean counters. I believe that there are enough people out there buying D&D products that even if Hasbro does mess it up, it will return.

Anthony, thanks for OGL and D20. Sean, thanks for all of your great creative work, and your web site.

Hmm, that turned out way longer than I thought, sorry if I bored anyone.

 

[rounser]

It was about a WHALE druid.

Actually, this was one of the unusual combinations of class levels with a critter that really worked, conceptually and aesthetically speaking, IMO. YMMV, as it seems it does.