D&D 4E Forked Thread: Al-Qadim, Land of Fate 4e

[Hodag]

Three kinds of Yakmen are up...AQ Monsters Thread

 

[Quickleaf]

Three kinds of Yakmen are up...AQ Monsters Thread

Glad that you're doing these conversions - nice yakmen!

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

I almost think that Merchant-Rogue and Barber should be Warlord builds and the Rawun should be a Warlock.

Barbers get healing powers just as Warlord's do, and they take the Warlord to an interesting place by making the class a leader in terms of support rather than opportunity. The Barber gives other characters additional attacks by being the ultimate side-kick or batman.

Merchant-Rogues should be Warlords because they are dashing, swashbuckling, and intelligent figures of authority. They always had more in common with conquistadors than burglars. It's just that nothin like the Warlord existed before so they got put into Rogue along with all the other intelligent skill based types.

Rawun should be Warlocks because of the evil eye thing. They already had a curse mechanic, and the Warlock class lets you capture the otherworldly rogue quality that Rawun's should have without burdening the class with healing or command qualities.

 

[Quickleaf]

Barbers get healing powers just as Warlord's do, and they take the Warlord to an interesting place by making the class a leader in terms of support rather than opportunity. The Barber gives other characters additional attacks by being the ultimate side-kick or batman.

Barbers were intended to be information brokers, and they had a special ability to identify magic objects. They're cunning street showmen with with a glib wit and quick tongue.
However, they also love to give advice and are skilled healers in both traditional medicine and folk remedies. I could imagine a barber "talking a patient" back to health.
In my mind Rogue with Healing skill & multi-class Warlord feat would be the best fit, what do you think?

Merchant-Rogues should be Warlords because they are dashing, swashbuckling, and intelligent figures of authority. They always had more in common with conquistadors than burglars. It's just that nothin like the Warlord existed before so they got put into Rogue along with all the other intelligent skill based types.

Huh, that never cross my mind. More "morally ambiguous merchant prince" than "roguish entrepreneur one step ahead of debt". I like it! But it does change the flavor of the concept a bit. Any other ideas about how to implement merchant-prince as a warlord?

Rawun should be Warlocks because of the evil eye thing. They already had a curse mechanic, and the Warlock class lets you capture the otherworldly rogue quality that Rawun's should have without burdening the class with healing or command qualities.

Definitely a possibility, but what would their pact be? Ancestors? Tribe? Fate?

I'm not convinced about Rawun being a striker, however. I like a Warlord Rawun as sort of a witness to the raids, struggles, and battles of a tribe - paragon paths could be Chronicleer or Unifier of the Tribes - he would be actively making history with a sword in hand as well as recording events for future generations. I think it needs to be a leader, though I find the warlock concept enticing.

 

[Hodag]

Dragonne is posted

 

[Philosopher]

Hi Quickleaf,

I had contacted you after you posted about this on the AQ mailing list. I've been thinking about some issues, and here are my thoughts.

Armor - One simple way of handling the fact that heavy armor is not feasible in the desert heat is to simply remove all heavy armor proficiencies. Mechanically, this would mean that anyone wearing heavy armor would suffer from non-proficiency penalties - thematically, this can be explained as being due to the discomfort of wearing it rather than lack of training. This may not be completely satisfactory, but it's a starting point worth considering.

Classes - I don't think we should actually convert all of the kits from 2e. Certain kits, such as the merchant-rogue, the beggar, and the barber are simply better suited to NPCs rather than PCs. Why would anyone pursuing one of those professions know anything about how to fight? And let's face it, the classes of 4e are all assumed to be competent on the battlefield.

Regarding the rawun, I'd lean more towards thinking of them as warlords (as you do) rather than warlocks. I think the warlord can easily be given an alternate class feature that involves an evil eye, such as granting allies bonuses on their attacks against a specified foe (rather than just getting that bonus himself).

Evil Eye - Speaking of the evil eye, this could have many different manifestations. The rawun I just described above would have a leader-flavored evil eye. Any warlocks would have a striker-flavored evil eye (e.g., allowing extra damage). There should also be a (1st level?) ritual with its own effects. And, while we're at it, perhaps a feat that helps ward the evil eye?

These are just some thoughts. I'd like to work some of these out, but before I do so, I thought I'd get some feedback and see what people think about these ideas.

 

[Quickleaf]

Hi Quickleaf,

Hi Philosopher, and welcome to the ENWorld boards!

Armor - That's simple and it works. I was thinking Endurance checks with escalating penalties (perhaps a fatigue track like how diseases/poisons work in 4e), but that might be too complicated.

Classes - Well, Dr. Strangemonkey convinced me that merchant rogues should be reinterpreted as "merchant prince" (warlord), a more conquistador like figure. IMO, the sa'luk covers the "enterprising conman one step ahead of debtors" concept which seemed to be what the merchant-rogue was.

As for the beggar-thief and barber being battlefield-effective, it's about as plausible as a cleric or a mystic being a combatant. However, those are strong archetypes and ones which old AQ players recognize. I think compromise can be made here for the sake of playability.
Also, a little tweaking of the kits can go a long way. For example, what if the barber becomes a smuggler/spy type with a vengeful streak? I'm thinking take the basic Arabian archetyp, fuse it with a Casa Blanca type informattion broker, and add a touch of Sweeny Todd: Demon Barber of Fleet Street. Heck, we could even rename it to Barber-Spy. Sure there are your everyday barbers, but the heroic barber is different; he's the one who interrogates the captive wicked vizier with a razor to his neck, who waits at the home of a client who cheated him to take his bloody revenge, who smuggles the PCs into the harem rolled in carpets.

I'm really torn about which direction to go with the rawun, because both involve tweaking the original concept in equally evocative ways:
1. Warlock Rawun - mysterious tribal lorekeeper who knows the tribe's secrets and communes with the collective ancestral memory
2. Warlord Rawun - chronicler of tribal heroism, making history with a sword in hand and inspiring allies to have courage with their tales

Evil Eye - I've written a level 1 ritual "Avert Evil Eye". Inflicting the evil eye can be left to warlock's curses and other powers. I like your idea of different flavors of evil eye, I think we should run with it.

P.S. There's a discussion over here: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1084853 about fitting 4e AL-QADIM into the Forgotten Realms new timeline. Personally I like AL-QADIM more contained, but there are some interesting ideas over there.

 

[Quickleaf]

Character Class Builds

Here's a master list of the class builds I'm considering. New concepts are in bold. Feel free to criticize, reorganize, delete, and create. This list is just a springboard to work from.

CLERICS
Pragmatist: Traveling and contemporary priests of the common people
Ethoist: Dutiful officiates of the faith tending everyday prayer services
Moralist: Righteous and puritanical zealots militant in their faith
Hakima: Wise women whose clear vision pierces the veils of deception
Mystic: Reclusive prophets devoted to revealing a new spiritual truth

FIGHTERS
Askar: Raucous citizen-soldiers fiercely loyal to city and clan
Guard: Stoic defenders of caravan, harem, mosque, and palace
Mamluk: Slaves raised as elite soldiers and cavalry of utter loyalty
Mercenary: Callous sell-swords feared in wartime and reviled during peace
Traitor: Branded and jaded soldiers on the run from tyranny

PALADINS
Faris: Righteous exemplars protecting the people against injustice
Ghazi: Divinely-gifted raiders striking at enemies of the faith
Reckoner: Grim scarred devil hunters who do not fear the hellfire

RANGERS
Corsair: Unscrupulous privateers in love with the freedom of the seas
Desert Rider: Daring horsemen and women both raiding and protecting desert travelers
Matrud: Bitter and calculating exiles hardened to a lonely life

ROGUES
Barber: Quick-witted and menacing apothecary, smuggler, and spy
Beggar-Thief: Charming and nimble pickpockets spiteful of upper class
Daroga: Astute police detectives willing to overlook and bend the law
Holy Slayer: Undercover zealots using terror tactics to kill their targets
Sa'luk: Adventurous conmen one step ahead of debt and death

WARLOCKS
Malaka'is: Haunted souls pacted to mysterious and menacing angelic beings
Rawun: Glib tribal lorekeepers pacted to the spirit of history itself
Sha'ir: Impetuous summoners pacted to the auspicious Djinni Lords

WARLORDS
Amir: Shrewd noble lords ever defending and conquering fortresses
Merchant-Prince: Enterprising conquistadors seeking new trade routes and frontiers
Sheikh: Proud and uncompromising chiefs of the desert tribes

WIZARDS
Elemental Mage: Righteous and secretive wizards pursuing an elemental ideal
Fateweaver: Manipulators of the web of fate with a glimpse of eternity
Feisha: Tribal witches combating monstrosities with arcane force and wards
Philosopher Mage: Pious astrologers and alchemists straying close to heresy
Spectre: Outlaw illusionists and enchanters with one foot in another world

 

[Quickleaf]

The look of AQ4E

Here's an enticing graphic preview of what an AL-QADIM kit converted to a build might look like. The filler artwork is shamelessly borrowed from the Ubisoft videogame Assassin's Creed. Ideally I'd like to include some burning/glowing/smoking indigo calligraphy in the borders, maybe around the page number, but I'm not that good at photoshop yet.

Enjoy!

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Barbers were intended to be information brokers, and they had a special ability to identify magic objects. They're cunning street showmen with with a glib wit and quick tongue.
However, they also love to give advice and are skilled healers in both traditional medicine and folk remedies. I could imagine a barber "talking a patient" back to health.
In my mind Rogue with Healing skill & multi-class Warlord feat would be the best fit, what do you think?

Well, you could use role as a heurestic, that is - Is a Barber a Striker or a Leader?

Now you could certainly do a striker who heals in the same sense that a Paladin is a defender who heals. Or you could do a Leader who strikes. I don't think a strict mechanical distinction really works out.

But when I think Barber I think of the guy from the Sinbad movies who gives wicked advice alongside a shave, or I think of the Batmen and personal servants from more contemporary Arabian pulp.

There are striker elements there, but the basic schtick of information gathering and advice giving seems more Leader than striker. On a basic level they just seem to be the guy behind their allies, not the guy behind the lines.

Huh, that never cross my mind. More "morally ambiguous merchant prince" than "roguish entrepreneur one step ahead of debt". I like it! But it does change the flavor of the concept a bit. Any other ideas about how to implement merchant-prince as a warlord?

Ooo, "morally ambiguous merchant prince" I like that!

Let's see. For that description I would certainly go with intelligence as the build ability. After that I'd have to think about it. Probably emphasize powers with the "one step ahead of ya" feel.

Or, if you really want to hit up the ambiguity, "never go in with a Asokani when death is on the line."

Definitely a possibility, but what would their pact be? Ancestors? Tribe? Fate?

I was thinking Fate, but ancestors or lore would be a pretty interesting twist. Then you could have 'good' Rawuns who's ancestors had embraced the teachings of the Loregiver and 'wicked' Rawuns who represented the last of the old ancestor cults even as they wandered the land singing songs of righteousness.

I'm not convinced about Rawun being a striker, however. I like a Warlord Rawun as sort of a witness to the raids, struggles, and battles of a tribe - paragon paths could be Chronicleer or Unifier of the Tribes - he would be actively making history with a sword in hand as well as recording events for future generations. I think it needs to be a leader, though I find the warlock concept enticing.

I always had the impression of Rawuns as more being more bootless romantics with weird powers in addition to being (dis)respected artists, but I may need to reread.

I think either build would work well with those Paragon paths, as the bootless romantic becomes more stable and connected as she gains greater prestige. Might change the latter path to Heart of the Tribes.