Forked Thread: Disappointed in 4e; 4e upgrade or new game??

[Thasmodious]

"Improves" is subjective, in this case. I don't agree at all.

That's why I said *I think*, but thanks for the redundant clarification.

 

[Fifth Element]

If this is true (and honestly I tend to agree with you)... why do people get pounded on when they say 4e isn't D&D to them?

I suspect they'd get the same treatment if they said 1E isn't D&D to them. Just from different people.

Edit: And in all honesty, the ones who really get "pounded on" tend to leave off the "to me" part, and make the declaration as part of a greater rant which includes words like "anime" and "kewl powerz".

 

[justanobody]

Edit: And in all honesty, the ones who really get "pounded on" tend to leave off the "to me" part, and make the declaration as part of a greater rant which includes words like "anime" and "kewl powerz".

That is a constant problem online and in real life in conversation. You should not need to state that what you are saying is a matter of opinion, as most things are subjective, unless specified otherwise.

So all things said automatically should include the "to me" as they are most often opinions unless cited with sources for the facts.

I don't think it always includes the anime aspect to the posts until someone has been pushed/pounded etc to a point where they get tired of being beaten by someone else's opinion trying to tell them they have no right to their own.

 

[Fifth Element]

That is a constant problem online and in real life in conversation. You should not need to state that what you are saying is a matter of opinion, as most things are subjective, unless specified otherwise.

Of course, if you know it's a problem, you can circumvent it by actually writing "to me".

I don't think it always includes the anime aspect

Which is why I wrote "tend to". Communication problems also arise when you don't read the words used in the post you're replying to.

 

[FireLance]

So all things said automatically should include the "to me" as they are most often opinions unless cited with sources for the facts.

That's your opinion, and you left out the "to me".

 

[rounser]

I suspect they'd get the same treatment if they said 1E isn't D&D to them. Just from different people.

I doubt it. Anyone who says that is self-evidently wrong, by most standards - and probably diaglo, to boot. You don't dispute diaglo on that topic, and anybody else you could just accuse of stealing his schtick.

On the other hand, 4E being/not-being D&D is anyone's game.

 

[FireLance]

If this is true (and honestly I tend to agree with you)... why do people get pounded on when they say 4e isn't D&D to them?

Speaking for myself, I normally don't pound on people when they say that any version of D&D isn't D&D to them. I usually do make an effort to correct misinformation, though. For example, I recently pointed out that encounter powers are only regained after a short rest. They don't automatically refresh after five minutes if the PC doesn't rest.

 

[Fifth Element]

I doubt it. Anyone who says that is self-evidently wrong, by most standards - and probably diaglo, to boot. You don't dispute diaglo on that topic, and anybody else you could just accuse of stealing his schtick.

Wait, are you arguing that someone who posts something wrong on a messageboard will not get dogpiled?

Or perhaps you mean to say they'll get pounded, but they deserve it because they're just wrong? What about someone who started with 3E? If he says 1E is not D&D to him, how can he be wrong?

On the other hand, 4E being/not-being D&D is anyone's game.

Like you said above, even 1E is only D&D by "most" standards. So it's just a matter of degree.

 

[Betote]

In D&D, we've seen upgrades and new games. We could say that there have been different "branches":

* OD&D - Homes - B/X - BECMI - RC - (BFRP)

* 1e - 2e - 2e with player's options - (HackMaster) - (C&C)

* 3e - 3.5 - (Pathfinder)

* 4e

Of course, not every "upgrade" is actually seen as an improvement by everyone, and for example there are many people who prefer 1e to 2e but, while one will always prefer one game within each branch (people will play 3.5 or Pathfinder, but I don't see many people claiming to run both), it's not uncommon to see the same person enjoying different branches (running a Pathfinder game, BECMI one-shots and planning a HackMaster campaign, for example).

 

[justanobody]

That's your opinion, and you left out the "to me".

Is my signature no longer showing up?

I just find it funny how people think everything stated these days is to represent facts. They are facts, but facts as viewed from the person expressing the opinion.

The only truth about any edition of D&D, is they all say D&D on them. As many various threads and forums have shown over the years "D&D" and what it is is subjective, and the fact it only the copyright holder can place the D&D name on a product. So it is left to each his own.

Then there are people who just like to argue for the sake of arguing rather than getting somewhere in any discussion, so it just ends up always in circles.