Forked Thread: Disappointed in 4e: "Reads Bad, Plays Good"

[Umbran]

Assuming it's not okay for me to just present the players with a list of skills they can roll, have them roll, and then narrate what happens based on the success or failure of the roll...

Well, I think the section on Skill Challenges is poorly written. I don't think the authors intend that you present any such list to the players. You, the DM, have a list of skills that you feel apply. You don't present that to the players any more than you present the stat blocks of all the monsters they fight.

Like in a fight with a monster, you describe the situation, and the players get to try anything they wish. They describe their actions - some of them will match things on your list, some won't. But, if hey may suggest a method of approach that you didn't think of that you think is valid, you can accept that as if it was on your list, and adjudicate the results on the fly. Rather like if they'd thought of a combat tactic you didn't.

Consider the list to be guidelines, and it's all good.

 

[Rel]

I tried this a couple times, but it seemed very artificial. I have no problem with tactical combat, but tactical non-combat encounters leave a bad taste in my mouth. I find that if I don't tell the players what skills are most likely involved in the challenge, they'll be creative enough in figuring out how they accomplish their goal.

That said, it's a good idea to try and involve everyone. If a few players pipe up and a couple don't, I'll ask them what their PCs are doing while everyone else is doing their stated actions. Standing guard, watching or helping someone else are all fine answers, as long as I've given them the option rather (as opposed to requiring them to do something).

I think we're on the same page. I plan to have a conversation with the players at the outset of the campaign where I explain how 4e is different from 3e in regards to skills. Just because you haven't trained Diplomacy is no reason that you can't pipe up when talking to the King. The 1/2 level bonus means that, at very least, you should be able to Aid whoever the lead speaker is.

Additionally there is more to these types of encounters than just the face man doing the do. For example maybe there is an advisor to the King who doesn't care for this ragged band of thugs that are the PC's. While one PC is wagging his silver tongue with Diplomacy, another might me Intimidating the advisor into staying out of the conversation. Another might be contributing to their plea to the King with Knowledge skills while a fourth is underscoring points made by the face man with an Aid to the Diplomacy rolls.

I'm hoping to get across to them that encounters in general should be a group effort. They are creative enough to look for ways to apply their skills to these situations without me holding their hand through it.