Forked Thread: If I'm Dominated, and Have no Weapon, am I no threat?

[Rechan]

A Mad Wraith and a couple of hellhounds (with a little bit of help from a wizardy BBEG) wiped out our entire party last session. Mad Wraiths are MEAN.

You want mean? Check out The_Jester's Whisper Demon. Sure, it's homebrew (so that makes it less legitimate in that "It might be broken cuz it's homebrew" sense), but man. I love it, especially when combined with a mad wrath.

It would certainly make the barbarian in the party cry.

 

[nittanytbone]

They could have you lay down and make yourself helpless, then CdG you (or have their underlings do it).

I would not allow Dominated to easily translate to Helpless. The intent of 4E is to reduce save-or-die situations. If you allow Domination to automatically become Helpless, its basically become save-or-die in most cases. Helpless is its own category and it is particularly difficult to attain.

What I might allow is a dominated character to submit to being tied up (over several rounds) which leads to them becoming helpless. It wouldn't just happen instantly though.

 

[James McMurray]

CdG is unlikely to kill anyone in 4e, especially a PC. It's a free crit, but it has to deal your bloodied damage to kill you, which just doesn't happen after the early levels.

Would you allow a PC to declare himself helpless against an attack? If so, and if it doesn't require a non at=will power, then a dominating monster could do it.

 

[James McMurray]

Follow-up;. I've never actually had a dominator order someone to make themselves helpless, because there's usually a better (i.e. more fun or more devestating) alternative. But I wouldn't say "it can't be done."

 

[DracoSuave]

1) Dominated means that you can make at-will powers, not merely free-actions, against your will.

Yes, that means a Paladin can be forced to fire off all his Lay on Hands.

It also means that if you're a character with no weapon, you either a) have another at-will or basic attack handy (Eldritch Blast, Magic Missle, all monsters), b) you're a Wizard, Alchemist, or Cleric with a snazzy at-will that will certainly help your temporary overlord, or c) you're not a player character, or d) not a threat worth dominating.

 

[Rechan]

b) you're a Wizard, Alchemist, or Cleric with a snazzy at-will that will certainly help your temporary overlord

That does raise another question.

Does your dominating Overlord know all of your abilities when you're dominated? (Since monsters do know the consequences or effects when they are affected by a power, like marks et al). Or is that up to the DM to be aware of, but the monster not?

And when You are dominated, who is deciding what you do? Does the DM decide "You will use this at-will against this target", or would you let the player decide?

I personally would enjoy the momentary switch in treating my allies like enemies and acting accordingly, using paladin's mark or the most strategic method available, but I know that players are way more willing to meta the situation and go for the weakest option because the player knows "This is my team."

 

[DracoSuave]

If the player is dominated, the player absolutely does not decide what he gets to do. Or else he isn't so much Dominated as simply diminished. 'Uh, I'll just used furious smash on this guy no one's attacking.'

Yeah, the monster definately gets to control that player's actions.

 

[Runestar]

I have always wondered how a party would fare against a group of 5 succubi, with each taking turns to charm each of the PCs and turn them against one another...

 

[Saeviomagy]

Follow-up;. I've never actually had a dominator order someone to make themselves helpless, because there's usually a better (i.e. more fun or more devestating) alternative. But I wouldn't say "it can't be done."

I would. There are powers that make things unconscious, or grant automatic crits, but they're usually only for one attack. What you propose would allow for round after round of CDGs, multiple ones.

And since there ARE PC powers that dominate, they'd pretty much become instant wins.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Well, if you're Dominated by a Blade Banshee's lvl 20 Daily power you are most CERTAINLY a threat....

What is a Blade Banshee?