Forked Thread: ... with an interesting note about 4th edition

[darjr]

Here's hoping it works.

It works around where I'm at. Used to be D&D tables at just a couple stores around here. Now its grown to all of them, I think even the local comic book only stores have a night of it.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Except it does determine, to a large part, the number of potential players. That does indeed have meaning for quite a lot of us.

Edit: or am I missing something in the thread?

The sales of 4e don't tell you a whole lot about the number of potential 4e players, though, other than that there probably are some.

Whether or not they're around you, of course, is much more variable.

 

[darjr]

The sales of 4e don't tell you a whole lot about the number of potential 4e players, though, other than that there probably are some.

Whether or not they're around you, of course, is much more variable.

Eh, at some point it is much more important than that. Every PHB sold is potentially a player. I mean, if they didn't sell hardly any, then your options for finding players would be anemic and meager, everywhere.

Sure, location is very important.

 

[Scribble]

In the context of the thread, "meaningless" was mostly referring to "meaingless for those of us who play the thing." As far as you or I or anyone else who doesn't work for WotC is concerned, the sales aren't important. Good core book sales doesn't mean anything for any of us.

If the new Kanye West album goes gold, that won't mean anything to any of us music listeners. It doesn't mean we should go out and listen to it. It doesn't mean it's better than his previous albums. It doesn't mean he's going to still be around in 10 years. For the consumers, it's meaningless.

I dissagree.

If the album goes gold that means that most likely people who like his style of music (jazzy hip-hop/rap) like the album.

As someone who also likes jazzy hip-hop/rap this is probably a pretty good indicator to me that if I'm looking for a new jazzy hip-hop/rap album this is one I should consider checking out since as someone who likes jazzy hip-hop/rap I'm most likely going to agree with other fans/purchasers of jazzy hip-hop/rap.

So it's meaningful to me.

Sure as you say it doesn't automatically mean that he will be around in 10 years, or that the album is better then the previous album. But it is a pretty good indicator that people like it.

The new D&D core books sold well. That doesn't mean you should go out and play it. It doesn't mean it's better than previous editions. It doesn't mean it's still going to be around in 10 years. For the consumers, it's meaningless.

You keep using the word "should" as if someone is saying that high sales numbers command people to do things... I don't think anyone is or has said that.

 

[Jasperak]

For WoTC D&D is the game that has to appeal to a lot of RPGers, if it doesn't they stop selling their RPG.

Anyone notice Enworld traffic has dropped a whole lot since 4e was released?

I've been wondering lately and sure enough-
enworld.org - Traffic Details from Alexa

I especially like how Wizards.com is trending down as well but Dragonsfoot.org is very nominally trending up.

 

[Scribble]

I especially like how Wizards.com is trending down as well but Dragonsfoot.org is very nominally trending up.

tsr.com is tredning up though... maybe more people have started just going there by typing Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page instead of going to the wizards board and then linking over to D&D?

But really I'd guess it is trending down since the summer... Just before the game was released there was probably CRAZY hype.

Also now that the free stuff is pay stuff, less people...

 

[Imaro]

You know, for all the people quoting the print run statements... Here's something I've thouht about... but never voiced before.

WotC creates a print run (larger then 3e & 3.5) for 4e that includes, both the core gift set and the singly sold books (but they are all 1st printings)... Now what I wonder is... seeing as how the core gift set was part of that print run, then all WotC needs to technically go to their second and even third print run, is for the core gift sets to sell out, not all of the print run they created. I find it hard to believe that single versions of the DMG and Monster Manual sold like hot cakes... except in the gift set. I also find it dubious that no representative has come out and said The 4e core rulebooks sold more than the 3e or even 3.5 rulebooks in a particular span of time, instead making the most oof the number of print runs the 4e core books have gone through. Just sayin

I probably wouldn't think like this except WotC as a whole tends to say very exact things and then not correct misinterpretation of them if it benefits them... the whole "not working on 4e... that requires minis" fiasco.

EDIT: I think tomorrow I'll go into Borders and see how many of the single books they have left are 1st, 2nd or 3rd printings.

 

[Jasperak]

tsr.com is tredning up though... maybe more people have started just going there by typing Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page instead of going to the wizards board and then linking over to D&D?

If 24,400 people go to wizards.com then 4 go to tsr.com if alexa.com's numbers mean anything.

Nice little interesting chart (daily avg for last three months per 100,000,000 internet users)
2,105,000 ebay.com
464,100 gamespot.com
409,400 ign.com
24,400 wizards.com
13,340 giantitp.com (OOTS)
4,130 rpg.net
1,900 white-wolf.com
1,590 enworld.com
1,400 paizo.com
560 peginc.com (Pinnacle - Savage Worlds)
280 mongoosepublishing.com
270 dragonsfoot.com
190 kenzerco.com
102 greenronin.com
37 necromancergames.com
28 trolllords.com
28 goodmangames.com
12 goblinoidgames.com
4 tsr.com (redirects to WOTC D&D page)

 

[I'm A Banana]

Eh, at some point it is much more important than that. Every PHB sold is potentially a player. I mean, if they didn't sell hardly any, then your options for finding players would be anemic and meager, everywhere.

Every PHB sold isn't a potential player, though. And, especially, every PHB sold isn't a potential player for you (or for me, or for any random individual). Good general PHB sales doesn't mean I'm more likely to find players, really.

The only thing that really controls that is how robust and avid the gaming community is in your given locality.

If I was to try and find a 4e game to play in, I might have a heck of a time, or not, and the general sales of 4e PHs doesn't impact that on a very direct level at all. Locality matters more. Timing matters more. Interpersonal skills matter more. Sales of the 4e PH don't enter into it really.

If the album goes gold that means that most likely people who like his style of music (jazzy hip-hop/rap) like the album.

It doesn't mean they like it, though. It means they bought it. Maybe they bought it and hated it.

It also doesn't mean that MOST people like it. Going gold isn't very big news for someone like Kanye because the distribution system in place is so huge that you need to go gold practially just to fill store shelves.

As someone who also likes jazzy hip-hop/rap this is probably a pretty good indicator to me that if I'm looking for a new jazzy hip-hop/rap album this is one I should consider checking out since as someone who likes jazzy hip-hop/rap I'm most likely going to agree with other fans/purchasers of jazzy hip-hop/rap.

So it's meaningful to me.

How do you actually look for new music? Do you scan the billboard top 100 list, or do you ask your friend what that sweet track he played at the party was? Do you request sales figures from the distributor, or do you do a google search for that soundtrack you liked the music of? Do you follow a band? Or do you follow trends? Do you care what's gone gold? Would you not buy the Kanye album if it didn't go gold? Assuming you're not a fan of Jay-Z, would you then buy the Jay-Z album because it's ranked high on Itunes?

Functionally, how does it happen?

D&D spreads like some of niche music, in general -- like a piece of culture, passed from people who know about it to outsiders who are might be interested in it. You find D&D is relevant to you because your buddy down at the comic book shop is playing a game and wants you in. Or, at least, that's the way I spread D&D (and other PnPRPGs). That's how I found D&D, and most of the people I've introduced to D&D found it through me. They didn't ask about sales at their local borders store.

Sales don't know you half as well as your friends know you, and I wouldn't buy anything just because it hit some sort of sales milestone. "Over 100,000 sold!" doesn't mean anything to me personally. It certainly doesn't give ME a reason to buy it.

It's possible I'm a freak of nature, but my third nipple and fifth eye and thirteenth fingers all say that I'm not.

Sure as you say it doesn't automatically mean that he will be around in 10 years, or that the album is better then the previous album. But it is a pretty good indicator that people like it.

Not really. People buy things they hate all the time (ah, brand loyalty!). And even if it was, it'd be a lousy indicator that I would like it. Sales figures generally don't sell D&D products. Word-of-mouth sells D&D products, just like it sells a lot of music in recent years.

 

[Fifth Element]

WotC creates a print run (larger then 3e & 3.5) for 4e that includes, both the core gift set and the singly sold books (but they are all 1st printings)... Now what I wonder is... seeing as how the core gift set was part of that print run, then all WotC needs to technically go to their second and even third print run, is for the core gift sets to sell out, not all of the print run they created. I find it hard to believe that single versions of the DMG and Monster Manual sold like hot cakes... except in the gift set. I also find it dubious that no representative has come out and said The 4e core rulebooks sold more than the 3e or even 3.5 rulebooks in a particular span of time, instead making the most oof the number of print runs the 4e core books have gone through. Just sayin

So you're thinking that they reprinted a whole bunch of books they don't need to reprint (since they hadn't sold out yet), just so they can brag about the first print run selling out fast?

Of all the things written above this sentence to be hard to believe, I think that's the top one. That would be late-TSR level stupidity on the business-management meter.