Fortune Magazine: How Nintendo is beating Sony and Microsoft

[Vigilance]

PS3 = Still too expensive, not many games which are taking advantage of it's power.

Yeah... and I think this will be the problem with the PS3 over its life cycle. If you look at the original X-Box, its games could potentially look MUCH better than the PS2, if you look at games designed for the platform.

But since PS2 had such a larger install base, all game developers not being paid off by MS would design for that, and then port to the X-box, meaning 99% of the games for the platform looked like their PS2 counterparts, or a bit worse.

This time, that trend will be reversed, with all non-Sony games being developed for the bigger install base (360) and then ported over.

In fact that's been happening so far, with the expected results: most Ps3 games look the same or a little worse than the 360 despite it's technological edge.

 

[LightPhoenix]

In fact that's been happening so far, with the expected results: most Ps3 games look the same or a little worse than the 360 despite it's technological edge.

There's an additional subtle reason for this, I think. From what I understand, the XBox and 360 are based more on PC architecture, and are easier to program on, so more time can be spent on the pretty than optimization. I remember when the PS2 came out, there was a big uproar over how difficult it was to do something as relatively trivial as anti-aliasing. In fact, IIRC Sony even had to teach people how to do it.

 

[Vigilance]

Yet another tidbit... for the month of may, the 20 best selling games were all Nintendo platform games (Wii and DS).

Ouch.

 

[Ranger REG]

Yet another tidbit... for the month of may, the 20 best selling games were all Nintendo platform games (Wii and DS).

Ouch.

You know what that means. Sony needs to put out more porn games.

*placeholder: evil laugh smiley*

 

[Vigilance]

You know what that means. Sony needs to put out more porn games.

*placeholder: evil laugh smiley*

Yeah cause that's clearly what the market wants. Most of them were super kid-friendly lol.

An over-reliance on shooters and racers is what has traditionally killed MS consoles over there (than and I think Japanese people made their Will save in larger numbers and can see Gates is the devil).

 

[Vocenoctum]

Now Wii is kicking both of the big boys all over the place it has become outright laughable to read the excuses as to why this is happening from the XBox 360 and PS3 fanboys.

See, from what I remember, most folks figured Nintendo would sell lots of consoles as "second consoles", and folks would get a 360 & Wii for the price of a PS3, etc. Now, this is not entirely true, obviously.

I was really having fun with the Wii before it released to an utter lack of anything I wanted to play on it. I held off getting a 360 for a while until I could get games I actually wanted to play. (And right now it's basically useless until the rest of the games come out I want.)

BUT, all that said, the comparisons I've seen are all majorly faulty. Comparing Wii Sales for this month with 360 Sales for this month is bad logic. Comparing Wii Sales for this month vs 360 Sales for last year would be a bit more accurate, though still a little off due to availability issues.

At this point, the 360 still has a larger install base (worldwide) than the Wii, but these articles make it seem the opposite.

I think the Wii will keep going, but eventually the gimmicky nature of most of it's games will start to lag and sales will fall, especially when other consoles lower prices and kick out some big names to compete.

As for the PS3? The price, the blu-ray, the arrogance... I never figured the PS3 would fail against the 360, but I figured it'd fail against the PS2. The PS2 is probably competing well with the Wii & 360 still, and the PS3 won't gain energy until Sony pulls the PS2 plug. (Which, I doubt it will soon, given it's making more money there...)

Also, the old maxim is that "games sell consoles", but the Wii seems to be selling based more on it's controller than it's games. Except maybe Wii Sports. I don't know if that's sustainable, and I"m sure they'll want to transition to a more stable model once they get the game support.

 

[Vigilance]

BUT, all that said, the comparisons I've seen are all majorly faulty. Comparing Wii Sales for this month with 360 Sales for this month is bad logic. Comparing Wii Sales for this month vs 360 Sales for last year would be a bit more accurate, though still a little off due to availability issues.

Oh they've done those comparisons too.

The Wii has outsold every console ever in its first 6 months, even the PS 2.

http://www.informationarbitrage.com/2007/05/nintendo_wii_a_.html

At this point, the 360 still has a larger install base (worldwide) than the Wii, but these articles make it seem the opposite.

No, it's the growth curve everyone is looking at with a raised eyebrow. Of course the install base of the 360 is larger. If you run unopposed for more than a year and get passed in a few months (remember the Wii only debuted at November of last year) then you have flopped.

But right now Wii's are selling at twice the pace of the 360. If they can maintain that for awhile, they will pass them.

Also, these guys are looking at the worldwide market. The Wii is selling at twice the pace of the 360 here. In Japan, Wiis are selling at something like twenty times the pace of the 360.

I think the Wii will keep going, but eventually the gimmicky nature of most of it's games will start to lag and sales will fall, especially when other consoles lower prices and kick out some big names to compete.

I disagree, and I think one reason the analysts are thinking this might not happen is looking at the DS. They dismissed the DS as "a gimmick" when compared to the PSP. The PSP has more bells and whistles, is more of a multimedia device, and is much more expensive.

And the DS is cleaning its clock.

As for the PS3? The price, the blu-ray, the arrogance... I never figured the PS3 would fail against the 360, but I figured it'd fail against the PS2. The PS2 is probably competing well with the Wii & 360 still, and the PS3 won't gain energy until Sony pulls the PS2 plug. (Which, I doubt it will soon, given it's making more money there...)

I think Sony would be willing to pull the plug on the PS2 and eat the loss (lord knows it's losing billions in the gaming division already) but Sony is in a weird spot where developers just aren't making many games for the PS3. So they risk losing even more market share if the PS2 leaves the new games picture.

Also, the old maxim is that "games sell consoles", but the Wii seems to be selling based more on it's controller than it's games. Except maybe Wii Sports. I don't know if that's sustainable, and I"m sure they'll want to transition to a more stable model once they get the game support.

I think what we're already seeing is exactly what happened with the DS. Some third parties supported it early, most didn't, but then the install base got so big, they had to, and then there was a flood of 3rd party games.

We're already hearing rumblings that this is happening with the Wii. Just about every 3rd party company has promised more support for the console.

Games might sell consoles, but the console is ALREADY selling. And the inverse is also true. Developers are happy to develop for any console that has a large install base. Especially one without a lot of competition, and one that is the cheapest console to develop for.

In other words, based on its controller or not (and again you could say exactly the same thing about the single fastest selling console in the world- the DS- and a lot of folks did), I expect to see a lot of 3rd parties make good on their recent promises to support the Wii and its install base, which is still growing, and growing faster than any other console.

Chuck

 

[Vocenoctum]

Oh they've done those comparisons too.

The Wii has outsold every console ever in its first 6 months, even the PS 2.

http://www.informationarbitrage.com/2007/05/nintendo_wii_a_.html

Thanks, haven't seen that comparison before. There are still other factor of course (price vs current consolves for example), but I imagine the main one is as much availability as anything.

But right now Wii's are selling at twice the pace of the 360. If they can maintain that for awhile, they will pass them.

Right, but most of the stuff makes it seem like Wii's already outnumber 360's. In addition, the Wii is the delight of the press, and that amount of coverage/ free advertising is a huge boost.

Also, these guys are looking at the worldwide market. The Wii is selling at twice the pace of the 360 here. In Japan, Wiis are selling at something like twenty times the pace of the 360.

Lets be realistic, everyone knew that everyone would outsell the 360 in Japan, long before the systems were even finalized. Folks can say it is nationalist buying on Japan's part, or that Microsoft simply doesn't understand the market, but the idea that they would ever outsell in Japan was never even floated. Aside from that though, the Wii is a perfect fit for the Japanese market IMO, a more casual game system for a culture with a more ingrained casual game.

I disagree, and I think one reason the analysts are thinking this might not happen is looking at the DS. They dismissed the DS as "a gimmick" when compared to the PSP. The PSP has more bells and whistles, is more of a multimedia device, and is much more expensive.

And the DS is cleaning its clock.

The DS is a product improved Gameboy, which already owned that market. Sony had to fight into that market, like they did with PS1, and this time they lost. (I blame it on stupid advertising, a Sony Hallmark.

The DS is a well thought out little game system, certainly. I have one myself, and it's enjoyable when I can find a good game for it.

That said, way too many of the DS games add the touch screen stuff as a gimick. A significant amount of Wii games look the same way. The system risks being marginalized with all the "party game" stuff, IMO.

I think Sony would be willing to pull the plug on the PS2 and eat the loss (lord knows it's losing billions in the gaming division already) but Sony is in a weird spot where developers just aren't making many games for the PS3. So they risk losing even more market share if the PS2 leaves the new games picture.

I think Sony might have blinked first and realized that maybe building the PS3 around BluRay might have been a bit bad. They've got investors and they can't make every decision to lose money.

I think what we're already seeing is exactly what happened with the DS. Some third parties supported it early, most didn't, but then the install base got so big, they had to, and then there was a flood of 3rd party games.

We're already hearing rumblings that this is happening with the Wii. Just about every 3rd party company has promised more support for the console.

I think third party will be there, but I think it's a matter of them always making the same style games. It all depends on whether they can get some good games that break the mold and branch out the system.

 

[Ranger REG]

More power to them!

The Wii was a great idea and the current up is certainly deserved.

So's their handheld DS.

Don't worry. Sony is somehow getting ready to release a next-gen handheld that has something to do with Sony filling a patent for something.

 

[Ranger REG]

An over-reliance on shooters and racers is what has traditionally killed MS consoles over there (than and I think Japanese people made their Will save in larger numbers and can see Gates is the devil).

Personally, Microsoft shouldn't be in the business of doing game consoles in the first place. They should focus on making computer replacing game consoles.

But NOOOOOOOO!!! For a nerd, Gates is dumb.