D&D 4E FR 4E SPOILER - Grand Histoy of the Realms info

[Kae'Yoss]

Spoilers in this post!

Argh. What are they smoking? Seems like Wizards really wants me to keep running Pathfinder Chronicles instead of FR now.

Okay, I won't cry a tear for Helm, he always was my least favourite deity in the realmy, and with a cast of over a hundred, that's an accomplishment.


But Mystra dying again? Can't they think of something new? What's next? Mystrana? It's getting old.


It sounds more and more like for 4e, some Wizards living Near the See have conjured a big giant *** who is going to cover all of Toril with ****.

We had the Time of Troubles to explain AD&D to AD&D 2nd ed.

We had retconning to explain AD&D 2nd ed. to 3e.

Excluding the idea of dropping the setting and not advancing into the next rule system so as to keep setting purity, 4e FR was going to do one or the other to explain the changes in the rules. Yet another cataclysm or yet another bout of retconning.

Retcon! Oh please say it's all a joke and just retcon! It worked for 3e. Just say that magic always was like this. It's not like it would be that much of a change, the Realms would not stop working all of a sudden.

Although this has already been revealed in the novels, most of the Drow gods have been axed. All that's left is Lolth, Eilistraee, and Ghaunadaur. Later Ghaunadaur is attacked by Lolth and moves to the Deep Caverns.

So this resolves the question on how the Lady Penitent trilogy will end: The Big Sava Game ends in a stalemate of sorts, but only after several interesting deities were removed.

And in 1383 a bunch of dwarven deities bite it. Gorm, Heala, Laduguer, and Deep Duerra die in battle with each other. The book says that Hammergrim "disperses" into the Astral. To me, that sounds like it breaks off from the Fiendish Planes and is toast.

And more wholesale slaughter of racial pantheons. It sounds less and less like the Realms.

Finally, we have the Spellplague. Apparently many planes are "shifted" or destroyed. The book states that only the greater gods can protect their respective planes from the destruction. I think this might mean that some of the lesser [and intermediate] gods might not make it.

Sounds less and less like the Realms. Why not just say that they're done with the Realms and want a new setting?

The last sentence of the book says that the Weave is destroyed and the "old world" ends and a new one begins. What that means is anybody's guess.

It means that they got rid of the Realms but keep using the name to sell more books.

 

[Tharen the Damned]

Spoilers

Finally, we have the Spellplague. Apparently many planes are "shifted" or destroyed. The book states that only the greater gods can protect their respective planes from the destruction. I think this might mean that some of the lesser [and intermediate] gods might not make it

Hmm, I guess I am paranoid, but can this be the destruction and rearrangement of the Great Wheel cosmology?

Planes destroyed - get rid of XY

Shifted - new arrangement in the great wheel

 

[Sammael]

Hmm, I guess I am paranoid, but can this be the destruction and rearrangement of the Great Wheel cosmology?

Planes destroyed - get rid of XY

Shifted - new arrangement in the great wheel

FR does not use the Great Wheel cosmology. If anything, it may mean a return to Great Wheel - lesser gods may be forced back onto the Wheel.

 

[Obergnom]

Hmm, well, being a Realms Fan, I think I will just wait for the finished product to see if they put a bnuch of new and cool story lines for me to play into that world. In the end, that is what matters to me.

btw. an imprisoned god is something I really like... if he is given a way to be a force in the realms. Maybe by controlling certain outsiders or something like that...

 

[Torm]

Spellplague is the second world-shattering event in, what, 30 years? (ToT was somewhere in 1350s, right?)

Yep. Totally unrealistic....

World War I - 1914 to 1918

World War II - 1937 (or, arguably 1939) to 1945

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

We go forward, we go back.

Over all I'm not very worried, partly because I have players who hate the FR and I always thought their good deities were the least interesting by far, but also because Cyric was my least favorite of the evil gods. I can see where some folks would be unhappy, though.

Consider this an object lesson, ladies and gentlemen: Always roll your own.

 

[Echohawk]

Sucks for guys like me that don't read the novels... there are just TOOOOOO many.

Wuss! There are only 210 Forgotten Realms novels.

 

[Glyfair]

But Mystra dying again? Can't they think of something new? What's next? Mystrana? It's getting old.

They have pretty much been written into a corner. It's been established that if you want to change magic drastically then you have to do something to the Mystara or the Weave, which each affect each other.

Retcon! Oh please say it's all a joke and just retcon! It worked for 3e. Just say that magic always was like this. It's not like it would be that much of a change, the Realms would not stop working all of a sudden.

Given the two choices, I think the choice between the two was quite easy for WotC. The Realms has had products published for 20 years now, and very consistently. They are running out of new ground to cover that is attractive to new players in the game.

The second part is the most important. In various discussions FR fans have commented that certain areas haven't been touched and need fleshing out. However, most of the things I've seen listed aren't things they are going to get people into the Realms. Y

The years the Realms have behind them have reached the point where that time is a blessing and a curse. They have a strong fan base (more than Greyhawk's by some reports), but they have a reputation. Ask your typical non-FR D&D fan about FR and they'll talk about god-like NPCs running around, huge amounts of history that has to be absorbed to understand the setting, and that to get the full understanding of the setting you need to read the novels.

What WotC needed to do was find a way to break with that in such a way that it's interesting enough to draw in new fans and those who avoided the setting before, but keep enough that most of the hardcore fans are intrigued and want to buy into the changes (at least enough to try them). I think this fits the bill in the sort of thing they needed to do.

Chris Pramas mentioned that he was afraid 4E would be a "3.75" edition. A few changes to the system that were just there to make the new edition necessary. He felt that would be a big mistake. When he found out at GenCon that 4E was going to be a major break he was in favor of that. He felt that was the proper way to do a new edition. Perhaps the same thing applies to FR. A half-hearted "same old, same old" plot to introduce FR to 4E would have not been the right way to go. They needed something that would shake things up, make things exciting, and make the new FR books something people would talk about.

Is this the exact right ground between the two? I can't pretend to know that. Only the future will tell. It's a tough line to walk, but the effect can't be judged until it's done.

 

[Nine Hands]

Okay, the Weave is gone, but what about the Shadow Weave? Is Shar the new default goddess of magic? Also, wasn't the purpose of the Chosen to anchor the Weave so that - if Mystra died - it would somehow survive (in some form, at least until another took up the mantle of deity of magic)?

Also, are they still using the Roll Of Years? If we skip a whole 100 years to 1485 (or whenever), then it gets even crazier. We skip the so many interesting sounding years!!

<snip>

Actually this may not be a really bad idea to skip all this stuff. For one thing, because they gloss over all that history you have an option of actually playing during it. With the new campaign setting being written in the "future", the GM can tailor the game so that it still fits into Canon with a little bit of effort.

Interestingly, I have been running a campaign for the last few years during this time period (as the characters are all elven and its easy to say that a decade passes here and there). With all of the plot-lines I had running, a Spellplague is really not out of the question for them. Heck I may even blame the whole thing on them

I think I will like the way the new Realms looks, but I need to take a good look at it first.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

Sounds awesome to me. What the realms needed more than anything was some sort of reboot that wiped away decades of overblown detail.

Now if Elminster and 99.9% of the drow died in the catastrophe, I'll be a happy camper.

And it sounds like, by killing "thousands of wizards", they are taking the level of magic down a notch. That's an improvement too in my opinion.