[FR] Everyone take a deep breath...

[Jürgen Hubert]

There has been a lot of talk on these boards about the advanced timeline of the 4E Forgotten Realms setting, with a lot of shouting of "This is stupid!", "The Forgotten Realms are ruined!" and "I won't buy this!".

I'd just like to advise everyone involved in such discussions to take a deep breath. So far, we only know snippets of information about the new setting. The things we don't know about the new book vastly exceeds the information we do know. And on these tiny bits of information some people already want to judge the entire setting book?

Really, the final work might be the best thing since sliced bread (German bread made from sour dough, preferably), or it might be the ultimate in lameness. But we won't know either way until we actually read the book, or at least some reviews of those who have done so. And that won't happen until the book is published, which won't be for a while.

Until then, everything else is empty speculation.

 

[Beginning of the End]

There has been a lot of talk on these boards about the advanced timeline of the 4E Forgotten Realms setting, with a lot of shouting of "This is stupid!", "The Forgotten Realms are ruined!" and "I won't buy this!".

I'd just like to advise everyone involved in such discussions to take a deep breath. So far, we only know snippets of information about the new setting. The things we don't know about the new book vastly exceeds the information we do know. And on these tiny bits of information some people already want to judge the entire setting book?

Really, the final work might be the best thing since sliced bread (German bread made from sour dough, preferably), or it might be the ultimate in lameness. But we won't know either way until we actually read the book, or at least some reviews of those who have done so. And that won't happen until the book is published, which won't be for a while.

Until then, everything else is empty speculation.

While this is certain true, I can tell you immediately that any 4th Edition FR material is going to be essentially useless to me as far as my existing FR campaign is concerned. By advancing the timeline to such a large degree, they have ensured that the material will simply be too far removed from the necessities of an existing campaign.

At the same time, the new material will almost certainly be similar enough that I won't see much point in starting a whole new campaign in it.

(By "campaign" here, I mean something slightly more expansive than what the term typically means. My FR campaign, in fact, comprises several large campaigns and a number of smaller one-shots and the like. At the moment it is, in fact, in a state of "hibernation" -- being visited only for the occasional pick-me-up one-shot. But eventually the other stuff we're playing right now is going to wrap up and we'll turn out attention back to FR.)

So the new FR setting could be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it won't matter all that much because it will never be useful to me or to existing FR DMs like me.

For me, this is just another move by WotC that leaves me scratching my head. In the transition from 2nd Edition to 3rd Edition they bent over backwards to encourage their existing customers to make the transition. With the transition from 3rd Edition to 4th Edition, on the other hand, they seem hell-bent on alienating their existing customers.

It's almost as if they want the market to fork.

 

[Li Shenron]

Until then, everything else is empty speculation.

I actually don't think that the quality of the new setting is under discussion, and seeing the people involved in 4e FR suggests to me that the quality is going to be high, just as it was in 3e.

What is outraging some FR-lovers is the step which is being taken, and that is not speculation anymore but quite confirmed...

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I'd just like to advise everyone involved in such discussions to take a deep breath. So far, we only know snippets of information about the new setting. The things we don't know about the new book vastly exceeds the information we do know. And on these tiny bits of information some people already want to judge the entire setting book?

Welcome to the internet. And go away -- your sound reason is detracting from the fun of our abject fear and panic.

The sky is falling; it hit me on my little head!

 

[Arnwyn]

There has been a lot of talk on these boards about the advanced timeline of the 4E Forgotten Realms setting, with a lot of shouting /SNIP/ "I won't buy this!"

I'd just like to advise everyone involved in such discussions to take a deep breath. So far, we only know snippets of information about the new setting. The things we don't know about the new book vastly exceeds the information we do know. And on these tiny bits of information some people already want to judge the entire setting book?

You had me until you included "I won't buy this". Whoops on your part! Because I'm not going to buy it - which, as you should know, is a clearly legitimate decision. Some changes have been announced, and the advanced timeline has been published - so it's clear for all to see (and not "speculation" at all). Now, if those specific announced changes are unpalatable to certain peoople, then it is perfectly reasonable for those people to not spend their money on that book (which is a right and proper decision for a consumer).

The rest could be great stuff - but if those specific changes are bad enough (and that's all they have to be - bad enough), then certain consumer may simply not be in a position at that moment in their 'gaming careers' (read: the leisure time available to them in their lives) to bother with going through and making the changes.

I'm certainly not buying 4e FR, for example, as I'm no longer in any position to spend my (extremely limited and precious) leisure time in going through and trying to read, understand, and then change back what they've done. It already fails a cost/benefit analysis just with the changes announced so far. That's my perogative, based on my personal situation, and some random internet guy blathering about "deep breaths" with no further knowledge about the free time of other posters is not going to change that.

(Note that I'm sure 4e FR will be great for a certain segment of the gaming population - I'm just not one of them.)

 

[Gallo22]

I really don't care either way. I've got most of the 2.0, 3.0 and 3.5 FR books. That's plenty for me until I die. For folks new to the game, I'm sure they'll enjoy the new FR books.

Hasbro is just changing the time line so they have new and different books to sell to the hardcore buyers. If they stuck to the same stuff that's already out there, whose going to buy it. That's why they have to change everything.

 

[wingsandsword]

Well, they are advancing the timeline 10 years, and making some rather drastic changes to the world: Mystra is slain by Shar (and apparently Azuth and Velsharoon are killed or otherwise lost in the aftermath) and the weave goes wild and many/most mages are driven to insanity. Helm is slain as well, not to mention the Dwarven pantheon killing the Duergar deities, a war between the Shadovar and Cormyr, and the deaths of most of the drow pantheon except for Lolth and Eilistraee (looks like they are winnowing down the Demihuman deities, in line with the 4e design philosophy of fewer gods we've heard about). The planes are completely rearranged by this mayhem (presumably so that FR will now fit the standard D&D Cosmology, funny how they rewrote the FR cosmology to be unique in 3e, but in 4e it looks like they are rewriting it to fit with the core rules).

As it's described in the last line of The Grand History of the Realms "Sages in centuries to come mark the Weave's destruction in the Year of Blue Fire as the end of the old world, and the terrible beginning of the new". That sounds pretty clear they mean for the 4e realms to be something totally new and unlike anything before. It looks like they are going out of their way to create some new, post apocalyptic Forgotten Realms.

Between 1st and 2nd Edition they had the Time of Troubles, which was fairly short lived, and did kill a few deities, but the slain deities were mostly replaced and the changes to the Realms were generally superficial, and the timeline was only advanced a few months. Between 2nd and 3rd edition it stepped forward a few years and the big changes were the death of Azoun IV in battle, the rise of the Thayan Enclaves, and the appearance of the City of Shade. Now between 3rd and 4th they are advancing the timeline a decade, slaying much of the pantheons, rearranging the cosmology, shattering magic as we know it.

I don't see why I should buy in to the 4e Realms if it's so different from the Realms I've come to love and know so well.

 

[BlackMoria]

I'd just like to advise everyone involved in such discussions to take a deep breath. So far, we only know snippets of information about the new setting. The things we don't know about the new book vastly exceeds the information we do know. And on these tiny bits of information some people already want to judge the entire setting book?

Well, this IS established. 1385 DR - The Year of Blue Fire

Gods are destroyed.

Entire planes are destroyed or swept away.

Only Greater Gods can protect their own planar domains. Looks like everyone else is taking some sort of hit.

The Weave is destroyed and thousands of mages die or go insane.

Post-Spellplague sages recall this year as the year the old world ended and the terrible beginning of the new world.

Hmmm. Seems pretty clear cut to me that things don't end well. Of course, we have almost no information about the post-spellplague Realms except for a snippet or two from the Orc King which basically hint that 100 years later, things haven't recovered and chaos is the order of the day.

Here's the thing. People make judgements on the facts at hand. The facts above don't look good from my position in the cheap seats. Seems very clear - 1385 DR they pull the plug on the Realms as we know them. End of the world stuff.

Given the facts at hand and virtually no information about how this 'end of the world' stuff plays out in the new campaign setting, I can see why Realms fans are upset.

And there is absolutely no guarantee it will turn out well. Look at the Dragonlance campaign setting and ask the fans of that setting how they like having their world 'blown up' several times now. The majority opinion that I got off message boards was the change to Saga rules was disasterous for the setting and the Chaos War didn't play well to an audience already stung by the Saga rules changes.

I am not saying the sky is falling but I do have an umbrella with me. We will learn more in the next 10 months but 'whether to fire or whether to water', only time will tell.

 

[Howndawg]

Although I've generally liked the Realms, I have not been a big fan of how they've kept mucking it up every few years. There is nothing quite as annoying as buying a new Realms product only to have it outdated by a trilogy released the next year. It would definitely be a plus, however, if they kill off most or all of the uber-NPC's running around.

Howndawg

 

[Arashi Ravenblade]

I dont mind them messing with things so long as there is a story reason. If they released the FRCS 4e and suddenly there never was a Mystra and 25 level spells always existed and the world was always terrifying, then that would make me very angry.