[FR] Everyone take a deep breath...

[Primitive Screwhead]

It is the magnitude of the change. You stated you like Eberron and we know that Eberron is going to get a two year advancement in the time line.

Now, if Eberron got the magnitude of change the Realms is getting, try this:

...<snip>
How do you like the Eberron campaign setting now? Is Eberron the same in light of the scenario above?

Bad choice of arguments against me

...because actually that sounds *exactly* like what I would expect to happen when the Guardians partially fail and Xoriat is no longer held at bay. Perhaps all the Warforged are 'awakened' to there original purpose of serving the Quori and are now terminato-ish machines that the PC's have to hunt down and slay... all sort of good plot and role-play develpment!


And if 4E did this, I could chose to run in the new setting, or continue my group in the same setting they are in now...

I am currently running the War of the Burning Sky in Eberron, altho set a couple thousand years earlier and in Sarlona. No dragonshards, no warforged, no airships {well, yet.. haven't made it to that module yet }.. even the Pantheon is split. No 'Soveriegn Host' or 'Dark Six'
Not even any Inspired {yet...}

But the game is definately still Eberron....the group is soon to meet up with Lady Lhazaar who is heading out on an expidition to find a safe haven from the war
{ I realy hope they don't off and kill her....}

I could also pick up a 'normal' time-frame game and still enjoy it, under which ever rule system.

Anyway,
Just saying, I haven't seen enough to make me believe that the new Realms will be so 'Greyhawk-generic' as to throw off all the current fans. Changes there will be, yes.
As someone in this thread so wisely said:
"Change isn't an all-or-nothing matter."

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Say those changes BlackMoria mentioned *didnt* happen, but those ones you tic'd off did happe, now is it Eberron?

Yep, I can still see it. To me, as long as I can see the logical progression from where it is now to where it is in future, is is the same world. If all the Dragonmarks were to vanish because the Draconic Prophecy was somehow...over and all airships stopped working and all the rest, I'd be disappointed to lose some things that I liked about Eberron, but it would still be Eberron. It might even be better than the current setting. Only way for me to tell that for sure would be to run some games in it and see how it feels.

If I look at America and rename each city as a FR city, it doesnt make it all of a sudden FR because I renamed the cities. There are a lot of elements that have to be there that identify it as a certain setting.

Well, no, because it never was FR.

If there was a good explanation given, I'd accept almost anything as FR. If they said "The Spellplague changed all of reality, the land itself reformed into the geography of the United States and all the cities in Faerun move to these locations". Well, I'd be disappointed at the lack of creativity, but it would still be FR. The themes would still be the same, there would still be the history of the FR. There would still be clerics of the evil gods making plots of the good people of the world. There would still be a lot of the same things. Even if there weren't, once again, maybe the themes in the new version of the world would be even more fun to play D&D in.

 

[Beginning of the End]

D&D and FR could have been updated with out changing everything. I expecdt there are two reasons: (...) 2. For the wotc owners to make it their game and remove Gygax and Arnson from the picture.

Time for a quick history lesson:

(1) Arneson's name was removed from D&D when Gygax released the 1st Edition of AD&D.

(2) Gygax's credit was minimized and removed from the title page when 2nd Edition was released.

(3) Arneson and Gygax would remain uncredited on the title page again until WotC released 3rd Edition. Their credit was increased in size and prominence with the release of 3.5.

(4) Not only that, but WotC made sure that the both of them received a credit in the Section 15 copyright notice of the SRD's OGL. Which means that every single person producing a D20 supplement under the OGL was required to include Gygax's and Arneson's name.

As a result, WotC is directly responsible for Gygax's and Arneson's contributions to the development of D&D being more widely recognized in print than at any other time in the history of the game.

While I suppose it is vaguely possible that WotC, after going out of their way to make sure that Gygax and Arneson were appropriately recognized, is now intent on tearing them down again, your "expectation" that this is one of the two major reasons they have for releasing 4th Edition seems paranoid to the point of absurdity.

 

[Badkarmaboy]

I stand corrected also. Now that I go and look at some of my old LG modules, I see both names in the credits on the front.

My bad!

 

[The Little Raven]

I stand corrected also. Now that I go and look at some of my old LG modules, I see both names in the credits on the front.

My bad!

But your intentions were in the right place. Gygax and Arneson have had nothing to do with D&D itself since the 80s and 70s, respectively. WotC just seems keen to let people know D&D's roots, which is why they credit them (and not anyone from 2nd edition or on).

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

I finally got "The Grand History of the Realms". Here are my thoughts on the "thousands of wizards die or go insane" bit:

- First of all, there is no mention that these are most or even all wizards. Sure, that's a large number - but how large is the entire wizard population of the Realms, anyway?

- Secondly, we don't know how large the percentage of those who die is among that number.

- Thirdly, we don't know if that insanity is permanent. Frankly, I suspect it's not. And even if it is, it might be cureable with cure insanity spells and the like. Sure, it this would still be a traumatic episode for all concerned, but as long as the affected wizards can get better, the changes won't be too drastic.


Again, we don't know any of the details until the 4E setting is published, so let's not jump to conclusions.

 

[BBQ]

The Realms will endure, as they always have. It's a trademark of the Forgotten Realms to go through world changing events every so often (Time of Troubles? Bane's resurrection? Mystryl's destruction?), and the whole Spellplague thing is just another one of these changes. It's kind of like Dragonlance's trademarks (A major war almost every generation it seems, and the gods coming back then going away again).

Sit back, relax, watch the changes, and have some fun with the new storyline possibilities.