[FR] Everyone take a deep breath...

[Kae'Yoss]

I only recognized three of those (Khelben, Do'Urden, Baenre), and only Khelben really seems to be significant for the Realms at large to me.

Still, they're all major characters that have died:

Khelben: Well, I guess I don't have to say much about Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunson, former Lord of Waterdeep, archmage of said city, chosen of Mystra, yada yada yada.

Zaknafein: Drow warrior. Drizzt's father, and major influence of his character. Like Drizzt, he wasn't thoroughly evil, but unlike him, he didn't quite have the guts for an open rebellion. Appears in several Drizzt novels

Seiveril Miritar: Sun elf high priest of Corellon. Leader of the elven Crusade that opposed the Daemonfey and retook Myth Drannor. Appears in The Last Mythal Trilogy.

Sarya Dlardrageth: Half-demon sun elf sorceress. Leader of the Daemonfey and house dlardrageth. Appears in The Last Mythal Trilogy.

Fyodor of Rashemen: Human Berserker of Rashemen. Traveling Companion and lover of Liriel Baenre (another rogue Drow from Menzoberranzan, son of Archwizard Gromph Baenre). One of the two main characters in the Starlight & Shadows trilogy.

And his death wouldn't have affected any of my Realms campaigns much

I wouldn't say that how much a character's death affects your campaign is one of the more important gauges of a character's importance to the FR canon.

So Mystra dies. Which is a bummer for her priests and a source of worry for archmages. But presumably, there are still wizards out there and magic still works somehow, which in the end is what matters most for the average adventurer.

I'm not the average adventurer.

Plus, having to relearn to use magic, from scratch, should be of some concern for many adventurers.

And thus you'll still have adventuring parties consisting of a fighter, a cleric, a rogue, and a wizard going off to fight evil, kill monsters, and loot ancient treasures in the same lands of Faerun that gamers have known for ages.

Of course, you can make our worries go away by oversimplifying everything.

Some of the details will be different, to be sure - after all, a lot of time has passed. But many things will still be the same so that it all will undoubtedly the same setting

Sorry that I don't buy into your religion and engage in the blasphemy of doubt, but I doubt that it will be the same setting. A setting is made up of more than village signs.

just like Earth is still recognizably the same world as it was in 1980.

Nothing fundamental has changed on Earth. gravity still draws things towards the center of the earth. The sun still rises in the east and sets in the west. Effect still follows cause. Time still goes from past to future.

 

[The Little Raven]

I always viewed the Red Wizards becoming more mercantile as a natural change, seeing as their whole plans for world domination kept being foiled by a certain Chosen of Mystra.

The Red Wizards were changed for one reason and one reason alone: To explain the sudden glut of magical items that appeared in 3rd Edition. The DMG suddenly told you that even small towns would sell you magic items, and they needed a FR-based explanation for that. Thus, you suddenly get most of the continent trusting the Red Wizards enough to let them set up conclaves in every nook and cranny.

And hopefully for all those Realms fans that want the Old Realms instead of the New Realms, they'll either do a "historical sourcebook" or a series of articles about playing 4th Edition with 3rd Edition (and earlier) setting.

 

[The Little Raven]

They're antagonising existing customers (soon to be ex-customers) in favour of potential new customers.

In my case, they're getting an existing customer to actually contemplate using the setting for the first time. Meddlesome godly NPCs and interfering deities no longer seem to be the hallmark of the setting, and that actually makes me want to use it.

 

[Fobok]

Sorry that I don't buy into your religion and engage in the blasphemy of doubt, but I doubt that it will be the same setting. A setting is made up of more than village signs.

So, you're saying it wasn't Forgotten Realms if you're playing a game set in the age of Netheril? Magic worked differently back then, there were different gods (some the same), different kingdoms, etc.

IMO, it sounds just like what they're doing now, though now it's in the future rather than the past.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

So, you're saying it wasn't Forgotten Realms if you're playing a game set in the age of Netheril? Magic worked differently back then, there were different gods (some the same), different kingdoms, etc.

IMO, it sounds just like what they're doing now, though now it's in the future rather than the past.

Not Future. Present. Netheril is, and always was, history. When the Realms were first created, the age of Netheril was already long past. There was no new edition that made the way things worked back then different.

And, you know, can't play in the age of Netheril with 4e rules, because they'll only work for the Realms in 1385 DR and later. That's the problem if you make story changes to accomodate rules changes, rather than re-explaining the existing with the new rules. Which worked in the 2e/3e transition, and works for so many game worlds that have more than one ruleset.

Take Legend of the Five Rings. It has its own ruleset (currently in third edition) but also a d20 adaptation. They didn't kill off all the kami to explain how you now cast X spells per day of a certain level, not X spells per day of a certain element.

Take Star Wars. There are no novels or movies that explain how the game moved from d6 to d20.

Take the World of Darkness. You could easily play the Old WoD with New WoD rules, or vice versa. You could play either WoD with McWoD rules, and vice versa. Sure, the NWoD has many differences from the OWoD (they didn't pretend it was the same WoD, though, like Wizard does), but none are because of rules. And sure, Monte's take on the WoD is completely different, but that, too, doesn't have anything to do with the different ruleset.

 

[The Little Raven]

Take Star Wars. There are no novels or movies that explain how the game moved from d6 to d20.

Poor analogy, as Star Wars novels were being published before an RPG was conceived, and none of the novels are part of an RPG novel line. They are novels in a setting that happens to have an RPG based around it.

Sure, the NWoD has many differences from the OWoD (they didn't pretend it was the same WoD, though, like Wizard does), but none are because of rules.

All human and once-human supernatural beings have a Morality system, whereas Morality/Humanity was only a concern in oWoD Vampire for the most part. No Generation-based vampires (huge change). No 4th Generation Mokole Abomination Changelings with an Awakened Avatar.

The rules made some substantial changes that need to be addressed before you can just run Vampire: the Masquerade or any other oWoD game with the new rules (I've done this, so I know the hassles involved).

 

[Uzzy]

The Red Wizards were changed for one reason and one reason alone: To explain the sudden glut of magical items that appeared in 3rd Edition. The DMG suddenly told you that even small towns would sell you magic items, and they needed a FR-based explanation for that. Thus, you suddenly get most of the continent trusting the Red Wizards enough to let them set up conclaves in every nook and cranny.

I was, of course, referring to an IC reason for the change to the Red Wizards. And it's hardly the whole continent trusting them. Personally, I quite like the Red Wizards as scheming, plotting wizardly merchants. Makes them more interesting to me. I like plotting and scheming enemies!

 

[PeterWeller]

Not Future. Present. Netheril is, and always was, history. When the Realms were first created, the age of Netheril was already long past. There was no new edition that made the way things worked back then different.

And, you know, can't play in the age of Netheril with 4e rules, because they'll only work for the Realms in 1385 DR and later. That's the problem if you make story changes to accomodate rules changes, rather than re-explaining the existing with the new rules. Which worked in the 2e/3e transition, and works for so many game worlds that have more than one ruleset.

ruleset.

Wait, you honestly think that you won't be able to run a pre-1385 Forgotten Realms campaign with the 4E rules? I don't understand this mindset. The same people who argue about how easy it would have been to just gloss the 4E rules over previous editions' fluff instead of inventing a time jump for the changes are the people who now argue that they can't do just that, and thus the Realms is ruined. This is just the most ridiculous sentiment. You can totally play in the age of Netheril with the 4E rules. You just have to say, "this campaign will take place during the age of Netheril; we will be using the 4E rules," and voila, you are playing a campaign set in the age of Netheril using 4E rules.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Wait, you honestly think that you won't be able to run a pre-1385 Forgotten Realms campaign with the 4E rules?

Well, WotC doesn't. If they did, they wouldn't go to such lengths to make ingame excuses for the rules changes.

 

[Gwathlas]

Change for profits sake

Isn't that kind of what they're doing? I hate to use this catchphrase, but they're not burning anyone's old books. I doubt it will be much trouble to gloss the 4E rules over the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd edition versions of the setting if that's the Realms you want to run. Whydirt is right; they're stuck between publishing updates of current books, or doing something big and publishing new books. Both paths will piss people off, but the second has a much better chance of selling new books.

D&D and FR could have been updated with out changing everything. I expecdt there are two reasons: 1. To sell more books that have been dumbed down for a broader market base. 2. For the wotc owners to make it their game and remove Gygax and Arnson from the picture.

To many changes many of which are not logical and certainly not welcome will keep me from buying wotc's new game. And why buy 4e and adapt it to the 3e FR? Better to show our displeasure and not buy any 4e products.